How can I derive Fick's second law for a fluid in a narrow pipe?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around deriving Fick's second law for a fluid in a narrow pipe, focusing on the concentration of molecules varying along the length of the pipe. The original poster presents a scenario involving particle flux and concentration gradients, aiming to establish a relationship through mathematical derivation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the assumptions regarding Fick's first law and its applicability to the problem. There are discussions about the bookkeeping of particle flux into and out of a segment of the pipe, as well as considerations of mass conservation over time.

Discussion Status

The conversation is ongoing, with some participants expressing uncertainty about the starting point for the derivation. Others provide guidance on how to approach the problem by considering specific positions and time intervals, although no consensus has been reached on the method to be used.

Contextual Notes

There is ambiguity regarding the acceptance of Fick's first law as a foundational assumption for the derivation. Participants are also grappling with the implications of not being able to assume this law holds true.

jason177
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Homework Statement


Imagine a narrow pipe, filled with fluid, in which the concentration of a certain type of molecule varies only along the length of the pipe (in the x direction). By considering the flux of these particles from both directions into a short segment \Deltax, derive Fick's second law, dn/dt = D d2n/dx2 (those should be partial derivatives not normal ones) where n is the particle concentration and D is the diffusion coefficient.


Homework Equations


Jx = -D dn/dx
where J is the particle flux

The Attempt at a Solution


I don't even know where to start
 
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The question is: can you take Fick's first law for granted ?
 
It doesn't say whether we can or not so I assume we can.
 
Well, then this is not so hard. What you have to do is to consider a piece of medium with thickness \Delta X and "do the bookkeeping" of what goes in, what goes out, and hence how things change locally (also called "mass conservation") during a time \Delta t.
 
Alright well after playing around with it for a while I still have no idea what to do. How would I do it if we couldn't take Fick's first law for granted?
 
Consider a position x0, and a position a bit further, at x0 + \Delta x.

Consider a time t0 and a time t0 + \Delta t.

Consider a density n(x,t) that is function of x.

Now consider how much is "in" the box \Delta x at time t.

Consider how much "comes in" at the "x" wall and how much "goes out" at the "x + \Delta x side during the time \Delta t.

That should be more than enough to get you going...
 

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