How can I determine the four functions from set B to set B?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding functions from a set B to itself, specifically when B contains two elements, {a, b}. Participants explore the concept of functions, Cartesian products, and subsets in the context of set theory.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants attempt to identify the four possible functions from set B to itself and question the meaning of function notation and subsets. There is confusion regarding the representation of functions and how to interpret subsets of Cartesian products.

Discussion Status

Some participants express understanding of the functions and their representations, while others continue to seek clarification on specific aspects of function definitions and their implications. Guidance has been offered regarding the nature of functions as subsets of Cartesian products.

Contextual Notes

Participants note language barriers and varying levels of understanding, which may affect the clarity of communication. There is also mention of potential over-complication in reasoning about functions and their outputs.

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Homework Statement



For sets A and B, the Cartesianproduct A x B is
{<a,b>: a [tex]\in[/tex] A and b [tex]\in[/tex] B}. A subset f of A x B is said to be a function from A to B (in symbols,f: A->B) just in case, for each element a of A there is exactly one element b of B with <a, b> [tex]\in[/tex] f:


Given B be the set {a,b}

and

There are four functions from B to B, namely:
{<a,a>, <b,a>}
{<a,a>, <b,b>}
{<a,b>, <b,a>}
{<a,b>, <b,b>}


Homework Equations





The Attempt at a Solution



by definition, i know how BxB

but i don understand B->B how to get that 4 function?
{<a,a>, <b,a>} meaning two output? or <a,a> is input, and <b,a> the output? or that is the subset of BxB?

this bring me to next question

"A subset f of A x B" or let make it simpler "A subset M of N" is this mean N is the subset of M?

help me clear my confusion
 
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Hi annoymage! :smile:
annoymage said:
There are four functions from B to B, namely:
{<a,a>, <b,a>}
{<a,a>, <b,b>}
{<a,b>, <b,a>}
{<a,b>, <b,b>}

but i don understand B->B how to get that 4 function?
{<a,a>, <b,a>} meaning two output? or <a,a> is input, and <b,a> the output? or that is the subset of BxB?

Let's call those four subsets f g h and i.

Then f = {<a,a>, <b,a>} is a subset of AxB and is the function such that f(a) = a, f(b) = a.
"A subset f of A x B" or let make it simpler "A subset M of N" is this mean N is the subset of M?

Yes, every function is a subset of the Cartesian product of its range and domain spaces.
 
Since B contains only two members, a and b, and a "function from B" must have each of those exactly once, any function from B to another set can have only two members: <a, > and <b, >. Now, fill in those blank spots with elements of the other set. Since her the "target set" is also B, we have two things, a and b, we can put into those blank spots. since we can choose either a or b for each of those two blank spots, there are [math]2^2= 4[/math] choices:
1) a, a
2) a, b
3) b, a
4) b, b.

That gives the 4 possible functions: {<a, a>, <b, a>}, {<a, a>, <b, a>}, {<a, b>, <b, a>}, and {<a, b>, <b, b>}.
 
i'm still trying to understand what HallsofIvy trying to say, sorry but I am no good in english ;P.

anyway, maybe i understand tiny-tim, ok, check my understanding

if B={a,b}
C={c,d}

possible function of B->C are:

{<a,c>,<b,c>} is a subset of BxC and is the function such that f(a)=c , f(b)=c
{<a,d>,<b,d>} is a subset of BxC and is the function such that f(a)=d , f(b)=d
{<a,c>,<b,d>} is a subset of BxC and is the function such that f(a)=c , f(b)=d
{<a,d>,<b,c>} is a subset of BxC and is the function such that f(a)=d , f(b)=c

and now suddenly i get what HallsofIvy saying

but now, this bothers me instead

M={<a,c>,<b,c>} is a subset of BxC and is the function such that f(a)=c , f(b)=c

is it f(B)=c, B={a,b}?

if it is, what about

{<a,c>,<b,d>} is a subset of BxC and is the function such that f(a)=c , f(b)=d

is it

f(B)={ c , B=a
d , B=b }

(pice wise function)

is it correct? sorry if i over-complicating things
 
annoymage said:
i'm still trying to understand what HallsofIvy trying to say, sorry but I am no good in english ;P.

anyway, maybe i understand tiny-tim, ok, check my understanding

if B={a,b}
C={c,d}

possible function of B->C are:

{<a,c>,<b,c>} is a subset of BxC and is the function such that f(a)=c , f(b)=c
{<a,d>,<b,d>} is a subset of BxC and is the function such that f(a)=d , f(b)=d
{<a,c>,<b,d>} is a subset of BxC and is the function such that f(a)=c , f(b)=d
{<a,d>,<b,c>} is a subset of BxC and is the function such that f(a)=d , f(b)=c

and now suddenly i get what HallsofIvy saying

but now, this bothers me instead

M={<a,c>,<b,c>} is a subset of BxC and is the function such that f(a)=c , f(b)=c

is it f(B)=c, B={a,b}?
Be careful here. f is defined on members of b, not B itself. We can give a separate definition: If f is a function from A to B and C is a subset of A, rather than a member of A, f(C) is defined as the set [itex]\{y | y= f(x)\}[/itex] for some x in A.
Since B contains a and b and both f(a)= c and f(b)= c, f(B)= {c}. That is, f(B) is NOT "c", it is the set containing only c.

if it is, what about

{<a,c>,<b,d>} is a subset of BxC and is the function such that f(a)=c , f(b)=d

is it

f(B)={ c , B=a
d , B=b }

(pice wise function)

is it correct? sorry if i over-complicating things
If f(a)= c and f(b)= d then f(B)= f({a, b))= {c, d}.

Again, you have to distinguish between a function, defined on a set, applied to elements of that set and to subsets of that set.

If we are looking at sets of numbers, and [itex]f(x)= x^2[/itex], then f([-2, 2])= [0, 4] because any number in the interval from -1 to 1, squared, gives a number from 0 to 4.
 
understood, thank you thank you very much
 

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