How Can I Prove These Vector Calculus Relations?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around proving various vector calculus relations related to differentiable curves, specifically focusing on the derivatives of normalized vectors and the definitions of tangent, normal, and binormal vectors. Participants explore methods to derive these relations and clarify concepts related to orthonormal vectors and planes associated with curves.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Homework-related
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks to prove a relation involving the derivative of a normalized curve and presents an initial attempt, questioning the correctness of their steps.
  • Another participant identifies an error in the initial attempt, suggesting the use of the quotient or chain rule for differentiation, but does not provide a complete solution.
  • A later reply indicates a revised expression for the last step of the original question but seeks further guidance on how to proceed from there.
  • Subsequent posts introduce the definitions of the unit principal normal vector and the unit binormal vector, asking how to derive these definitions and their relationships.
  • Participants express a desire for clarification on how the vectors T(t), N(t), and B(t) form a right-handed system of mutually perpendicular unit vectors, along with explanations of associated planes.
  • One post requests the deletion of a duplicate inquiry regarding the same vector calculus questions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the need to clarify and prove the vector calculus relations, but multiple competing views and methods for approaching the problems remain. The discussion is ongoing and unresolved, with no consensus on the correct steps or final answers.

Contextual Notes

Some limitations include potential missing assumptions about the differentiability of the curves and the conditions under which the derivatives are defined. The discussion also reflects varying levels of understanding and approaches to the mathematical concepts involved.

WMDhamnekar
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Hi,
Let f(t) be a differentiable curve such that $f(t)\not= 0$ for all t. How to show that $\frac{d}{dt}\left(\frac{f(t)}{||f(t)||}\right)=\frac{f(t)\times(f'(t)\times f(t))}{||f(t)||^3}\tag{1}$

My attempt:
$\frac{d}{dt}\left(\frac{1}{||f(t)||}\right)*f(t)+\frac{1}{||f(t)||}*\frac{d}{dt}(f(t))$

$\frac{||f(t)||}{f'(t)\cdot f(t)}*f(t) +\frac{1}{||f(t)||}*\frac{d}{dt}(f(t))$

I want to know whether my last step is correct or wrong.If wrong , how and where to go from here to get R.H.S.of (1)? If yes how to proceed further to get R.H.S.of (1)?
 
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Hi Dhamnekar,

You have a nice idea in your attempt. There is an error in the first term on your second line. You either need to apply the quotient rule to $1/\|f(t)\|$ or the chain rule to $(\|f(t)\|)^{-1}.$ Whichever method you choose, you will see that you get something similar to, but different from, what you have now.

I know you can do this, so I want to keep my hints to a minimum, at least initially. Of course, if you have more questions, I'm more than happy to help.
 
GJA said:
Hi Dhamnekar,

You have a nice idea in your attempt. There is an error in the first term on your second line. You either need to apply the quotient rule to $1/\|f(t)\|$ or the chain rule to $(\|f(t)\|)^{-1}.$ Whichever method you choose, you will see that you get something similar to, but different from, what you have now.

I know you can do this, so I want to keep my hints to a minimum, at least initially. Of course, if you have more questions, I'm more than happy to help.

Hi GJA,

If I have understood your reply correctly, then the last step in the original question is $-\frac{f(t)}{||f(t)||^2}+\frac{f'(t)}{||f(t)||}$. Now where to go from here to get R.H.S of (1)?
 
Hi,
I got the answer. :)
 
Continuing this exercise, assume that f'(t) and f''(t) are not parallel. Then $T'(t)\not=0$ so we can define unit principal normal vector N by
$$N(t)=\frac{T'(t)}{||T'(t)||}$$

Now how to show that $$N(t)=\frac{f'(t)\times (f''(t)\times f'(t))}{||f'(t)||*(||f''(t)\times f'(t)||)}$$

Continuing this execise we can define unit binormal vector B $$B(t)=T(t)\times N(t)$$ where $$T(t)=\frac{f'(t)}{||f'(t)||}$$. Note: We have already defined T'(t).
Now how to show that $$B(t)=\frac{f'(t)\times f''(t)}{||f'(t)\times f''(t)||}$$
I want to continue this exercise with one more question related to this question. How does the vectors T(t), N(t), B(t)form a right-handed system of mutually perpendicular unit vectors (called orthonormal vectors) at each point on the curve f(t)? In the answer to this question, I want to clear explanation about Osculating plane, Normal plane and Rectifying plane.:)
 
Last edited:
Dhamnekar Winod said:
Continuing this exercise, assume that f'(t) and f''(t) are not parallel. Then $T'(t)\not=0$ so we can define unit principal normal vector N by
$$N(t)=\frac{T'(t)}{||T'(t)||}$$

Now how to show that $$N(t)=\frac{f'(t)\times (f''(t)\times f'(t))}{||f'(t)||*(||f''(t)\times f'(t)||)}$$

Continuing this execise we can define unit binormal vector B $$B(t)=T(t)\times N(t)$$ where $$T(t)=\frac{f'(t)}{||f'(t)||}$$. Note: We have already defined T'(t).
Now how to show that $$B(t)=\frac{f'(t)\times f''(t)}{||f'(t)\times f''(t)||}$$
I want to continue this exercise with one more question related to this question. How does the vectors T(t), N(t), B(t)form a right-handed system of mutually perpendicular unit vectors (called orthonormal vectors) at each point on the curve f(t)? In the answer to this question, I want to clear explanation about Osculating plane, Normal plane and Rectifying plane.:)
This post #6 requires to be deleted under this original thread "Vector calculus question".
 
Last edited:

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