How can photons arise out of pure energy?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of photons arising from what some participants refer to as "pure energy." It explores the definitions and implications of energy in relation to particle creation, particularly in the context of physics and cosmology.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants reference a statement by S. Weinberg regarding particles being created from pure energy, questioning the validity of this concept.
  • Several participants assert that "pure energy" is not a scientific concept, arguing that it is more of a science fiction term without measurable properties.
  • One participant suggests that the term "pure energy" might be used to imply the absence of matter in the creation of photons, noting that photons do not carry certain matter quantum numbers.
  • Another participant points out that photons carry spin, which complicates the definition of "matter quantum number" and suggests that the definitions may be arbitrary.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally disagree on the validity and utility of the term "pure energy," with multiple competing views regarding its scientific relevance and implications for photon creation.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in the definitions of energy and matter, as well as the ambiguity surrounding the term "pure energy," which remains unresolved among participants.

g.lemaitre
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In the First Three Minutes, S Weinberg wrote:

These particles—electrons, positrons, neutrinos, photons— were continually being created out of pure energy, and then after short lives being annihilated again

I thought mass gives rise to pure energy in the form of photons. I didn't know pure energy could give rise to photons, I thought photons were pure energy.
 
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There is no such thing as "pure energy". That's not a scientific concept - it's science fiction, and popularizations of science sometimes steal the term. But there is no way to measure the "purity of energy", so it's not a scientific concept.
 
Vanadium 50 said:
There is no such thing as "pure energy". That's not a scientific concept - it's science fiction, and popularizations of science sometimes steal the term. But there is no way to measure the "purity of energy", so it's not a scientific concept.

yeah, I think the concept is just used in the sense that if you have enough energy around you can create particles and photons (conservation of energy),, but that energy didn't come in a "pure form" it was already there in the state of the particles.
 
Vanadium 50 said:
There is no such thing as "pure energy". That's not a scientific concept - it's science fiction, and popularizations of science sometimes steal the term. But there is no way to measure the "purity of energy", so it's not a scientific concept.

Of course, you are right when saying that it is no scientific concept. However, I guess that people using the term "pure energy" will usually emphasize that no matter is involved, i.e. photons do not carry any matter quantum numbers like "lepton number", "baryon number", "electric charge" etc..
 
Photons carry spin. The definition of "matter quantum number" looks a bit arbitrary, but I know what you mean.
 

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