How can \sqrt x and \log_e x be compared using calculus?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around comparing the functions \(\sqrt{x}\) and \(\log_e{x}\) using calculus, specifically through differentiation and analysis of their behavior as \(x\) approaches certain limits. Participants explore the conditions under which one function may be less than the other and the implications of their derivatives.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests defining \(f(x) = \sqrt{x} - \log_e{x}\) to prove that \(f(x) > 0\) for all \(x\).
  • Another participant rewrites \(\sqrt{x}\) as \(e^{\frac{1}{2} \ln{x}}\) and discusses the limits of \(\ln{x}\) as \(x\) approaches 0, indicating that \(\ln{x} < \sqrt{x}\) for small values of \(x\).
  • Concerns are raised about the behavior of the functions for \(x < 4\) and whether there could be a point of intersection in that interval.
  • One participant notes that while \(\ln{x}\) increases faster than \(\sqrt{x}\) in the interval \((0, 4]\), this does not compensate for the significant difference in their values near \(x = 0\).
  • A suggestion is made to check the derivatives of the functions to determine their relative sizes under certain conditions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express uncertainty regarding the behavior of the functions for \(x < 4\) and whether intersections may occur in that range. There is no consensus on the implications of the derivatives or the overall comparison of the two functions.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the lack of specification regarding the behavior of the functions for \(x < 4\) and the assumptions made about the derivatives without detailed analysis.

AdityaDev
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I was going through some important points give in my textbook and I saw this:
##\log_e x < \sqrt x##
How did they get this?
I know calculus so you can show this using differentiation, etc.
One possible way is that they took
##f(x)=\sqrt x-\log_e x##
And tried to prove it is always greater than zero.
 
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You can write [itex]\sqrt x[/itex] as [itex]e^{\ln \sqrt x}=e^{\frac 1 2 \ln x}[/itex]. Now we have $$\lim_{x\to 0} \ln x=-\infty $$ and $$ \lim_{y\to -\infty} e^y=0 $$. So for the least value of [itex]\sqrt x[/itex], [itex]\ln x < \sqrt x[/itex] and because [itex]\sqrt x[/itex] is strictly increasing and [itex]\frac 1 x < \frac{1}{2\sqrt x}[/itex] for [itex]x>4[/itex], the inequality is always satisfied.

EDIT: Looks like rewriting [itex]\sqrt{x}[/itex] wasn't necessary, but I don't change it because it may give you a feeling for the inequality.
 
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Shyan said:
You can write [itex]\sqrt x[/itex] as [itex]e^{\ln \sqrt x}=e^{\frac 1 2 \ln x}[/itex]. Now we have $$\lim_{x\to 0} \ln x=-\infty $$ and $$ \lim_{y\to -\infty} e^y=0 $$. So for the least value of [itex]\sqrt x[/itex], [itex]\ln x < \sqrt x[/itex] and because [itex]\sqrt x[/itex] is strictly increasing and [itex]\frac 1 x < \frac{1}{2\sqrt x}[/itex] for [itex]x>4[/itex], the inequality is always satisfied.

EDIT: Looks like rewriting [itex]\sqrt{x}[/itex] wasn't necessary, but I don't change it because it may give you a feeling for the inequality.
For x<4 why can't there be a point of intersection? You haven't specified what happens for x<4
I understood everything else. Thanks for the reply.
 
AdityaDev said:
For x<4 why can't there be a point of intersection? You haven't specified what happens for x<4
I understood everything else. Thanks for the reply.
When [itex]x \to 0[/itex], we have [itex]\sqrt x=0[/itex] and [itex]\ln x \to -\infty[/itex]. In the interval [itex](0,4][/itex], [itex]\ln x[/itex] increases faster than [itex]\sqrt x[/itex], but that slight excess can't make up for the huge gap in such a small interval.
 
Check the derivatives - if one derivative is smaller than another and the initial values are different then you have shown that one is always smaller than the other provided this requirement is met.
 

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