How can we choose y and k to express f(g(x+h)) in the desired form?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the application of the chain rule in calculus, specifically how to express the function f(g(x+h)) in a certain form using the definitions and equations provided in a proof. Participants are exploring the definitions of variables involved, particularly focusing on the expression for k in terms of other variables.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how k can be defined as [g'(x) + v]h based on the previous equations and definitions, expressing confusion over the justification for this definition.
  • Another participant suggests that defining k in this way seems arbitrary and asks for the justification behind it.
  • There is a reference to the need to express f(g(x+h)) in the form f(g(x)) + (something involving x and h), prompting a discussion on the appropriate choices for y and k.
  • Participants reiterate the equations f(g(x+h)) = f(g(x) + h(g'(x) + v)) and f(y + k) = f(y) + k(f'(y) + w), indicating their relevance to the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express uncertainty regarding the definition of k and its justification, indicating that there is no consensus on how to arrive at this definition or its appropriateness within the context of the proof.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved questions about the definitions and relationships between the variables involved, particularly concerning the assumptions made about k and its derivation from previous equations.

Bashyboy
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Hello everyone,

I am reading a proof of the chain rule given in this link: http://kruel.co/math/chainrule.pdf

Here is the portion I am troubled with:

"We know use these equations to rewrite f(g(x+h)). In particular, use the first equation to obtain

f(g(x+h)) = f(g(x) + [g'(x) + v]h),

and use the second equation applied to the right-hand-side with k = [g'(x) + v]h..."


How do they arrive at this, k = [g'(x) + v]h. Based above previous equations and definitions, I don't see how it is possible to write k in terms of the derivative of g(x), v, and h.

Could someone help me?
 
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Bashyboy said:
Hello everyone,

I am reading a proof of the chain rule given in this link: http://kruel.co/math/chainrule.pdf

Here is the portion I am troubled with:

"We know use these equations to rewrite f(g(x+h)). In particular, use the first equation to obtain

f(g(x+h)) = f(g(x) + [g'(x) + v]h),

and use the second equation applied to the right-hand-side with k = [g'(x) + v]h..."How do they arrive at this, k = [g'(x) + v]h. Based above previous equations and definitions, I don't see how it is possible to write k in terms of the derivative of g(x), v, and h.

Could someone help me?

Start with:
<br /> f(y + k) = f(y) + k(f&#039;(y) + w) \\<br /> g(x + h) = g(x) + h(g&#039;(x) + v)<br />

We want to calculate f(g(x+h)) - f(g(x)), so first we need f(g(x+h)). From the second equation,
<br /> f(g(x + h)) = f(g(x) + h(g&#039;(x) + v))<br />
and now we apply the first equation with y = g(x) and k = h(g&#039;(x) + v).
 
Last edited:
Bashyboy said:
Hello everyone,

I am reading a proof of the chain rule given in this link: http://kruel.co/math/chainrule.pdf

Here is the portion I am troubled with:

"We know use these equations to rewrite f(g(x+h)). In particular, use the first equation to obtain

f(g(x+h)) = f(g(x) + [g'(x) + v]h),

and use the second equation applied to the right-hand-side with k = [g'(x) + v]h..."


How do they arrive at this, k = [g'(x) + v]h. Based above previous equations and definitions, I don't see how it is possible to write k in terms of the derivative of g(x), v, and h.

Could someone help me?
What "previous" equation or definition did they have involving k? It looks to me like they are defining k to be [g'(x)+ v]h. Had they already defined it as something else?
 
Well, if they are defining k as [g'(x) + v]h, that would seem awfully arbitrary. What is the justification for such a definition?
 
Bashyboy said:
Well, if they are defining k as [g'(x) + v]h, that would seem awfully arbitrary. What is the justification for such a definition?

Go back to here:
<br /> f(g(x+h))=f(g(x)+h(g′(x)+v))<br />
We also have
<br /> f(y + k) = f(y) + k(f&#039;(y) + w))<br />
which holds for all y and for all k.

Thus, to express f(g(x+h)) in the form f(g(x)) + (\mbox{something involving $x$ and $h$}), which is what we must do to attain our ultimate goal of finding f(g(x+h))- f(g(x)), we need to choose y and k subject to
y + k = g(x) + h(g&#039;(x) + v).
What choice for y and k would you make here?
 

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