How can we make sure this Clean Up doesn't turn into a bigger mess?

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  • Thread starter Thread starter Mattius_
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around U.S. President Bush's proposed $15 billion plan for AIDS control in Africa and the implications of his involvement in diplomatic efforts on the continent. Participants explore various perspectives on the effectiveness of the plan, cultural considerations regarding condom use, and the political motivations behind such initiatives.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express support for Bush's plan, suggesting it could lead to significant improvements in Africa.
  • Others question the feasibility of implementing condom use in cultural contexts, arguing that it may not be a viable solution.
  • Concerns are raised about the allocation of funds, particularly regarding how much of the promised aid will actually reach those in need.
  • Participants discuss the potential influence of faith-based organizations on the aid strategy, with differing views on whether this is appropriate or effective.
  • Some argue that political motivations may overshadow genuine humanitarian efforts, suggesting that awareness and votes may be prioritized over actual aid delivery.
  • There are differing opinions on the morality of political strategies that may involve deception for the sake of progress.
  • Participants highlight the historical context of foreign aid and its effectiveness, comparing it to past initiatives in other regions.
  • Some express skepticism about the sincerity of U.S. involvement in Africa, questioning whether it is driven by altruism or self-interest.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus; multiple competing views remain regarding the effectiveness and motivations behind Bush's plan, as well as the cultural implications of proposed solutions.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the lack of clarity on the specific terms of the aid plan, the cultural dynamics surrounding condom use, and the historical effectiveness of similar initiatives in different regions.

Who May Find This Useful

Readers interested in political science, international relations, public health policy, and cultural studies may find the discussion relevant.

  • #31
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  • #33
Oddly enough, this thread only reinforces my old theory... there are no smart people in Nebraska.

that wasnt nice...
 
  • #34
It's actually sad that Bush has decided to start bribing African nations. Now that every nation is afraid to collaborate with the US for fear of breaking international laws, he has to try to gain support from third world countries.

In a recent interview, the prime minister of Poland openly admitted that cooperation with the US in the aftermath of the war could mean lower oil prices (and therefore improvement in economy) for his own country.

When you think about it, $15 billion isn't that much to pay for gaining support from many third world UN representatives.

eNtRopY
 
  • #35
so what if the United States can't get any support in europe? their reasons for not supporting us are just as scandalous as our reasons for attacking iraq...
 
  • #36
Originally posted by Mattius_
so what if the United States can't get any support in europe? their reasons for not supporting us are just as scandalous as our reasons for attacking iraq...

No, it's not scandalous that European nations do no want to take blood money from the US. It's scandalous that the US is looking to gain support from desperately poor countries by waving a ham sandwich in front of their pathetic faces.

eNtRopY
 
  • #37
haha lesson 1 in politics entropy, morals are non-existent!

dont expect me to swallow that crap, they are as crooked as you or me. they won't take blood money, lol! every single country which sided against us, is now offering to help cleanup iraq, including france! that is FACT. Morality is innefficient, and thus non-existent, every 'moral' country has long died off...

sorry if this new frontier of politics is a little bitter to you, but the fact is that it is REAL.
 
  • #38
Oh, I am aware that most European countries are angered by the fact that the US has blacklisted them from the reconstruction. However, I am also aware of the fact that most European countries would rather not officially back the US and its policy simply because it is blatantly illegal.

Let's count the number of times the US has contradicted its own Universal Declaration of Human Rights (established in 1948). On second thought, that would take too long... nevermind.

eNtRopY
 
  • #39
Originally posted by eNtRopY
Oh, I am aware that most European countries are angered by the fact that the US has blacklisted them from the reconstruction.
They want the money but not the responsibility. Tough.
 
  • #40
Originally posted by quantumcarl Here's to a totally independent Africa! Viva la Liberty!
 
  • #41
an independent africa? we (as in westerners) made the mess, its our job to clean it up
 
  • #42
Originally posted by Mattius_
an independent africa? we (as in westerners) made the mess, its our job to clean it up

Its a tough call. Do we integrate the different cultures of the world into our culture of wireless glass and steel boxes? Do we integrate the other cultures of the world into our glass and steel boxes... where we have goats and mud and cobras and straw rooves along with our Frappachino Carmella?

its a tough call. Do we regulate each pound of goat's milk cheese like we do in Euro land? Do we impose Burgers pattie regulations that shape the food of a nation... Ostrich Burger/ Water buffalo patties... Kuala cheese melt to go?

The result of a "Western Cleanup Op" in Africa will undoubtedly make a worse mess. Unless, of course, people are senstitive to the ways of the African. And the Africans are involved at the highest level in this... "Clean Up".

Some results have been reverse discrimination where we see white immigrants being beaten and removed from their land... sometimes killed. It sounds a bit like Cincinati on a hot, riotious night, except in the reverse.
 

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