How deep does thermodynamics go? And how much would a chemist know?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the accessibility of research in non-equilibrium thermodynamics for a chemistry major. Participants explore the depth of thermodynamics as a field, its relevance to chemistry, and the potential for interdisciplinary study between chemistry and physics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • The original poster (OP) expresses curiosity about the extent to which a chemistry major can engage with non-equilibrium thermodynamics and its applications in chemical kinetics and biology.
  • Some participants suggest that chemists and chemical engineers may have a better understanding of thermodynamics than physicists, although this is contested.
  • There is mention of differing conventions in thermodynamics texts regarding positive and negative work, indicating variability in understanding even within physics.
  • One participant encourages the OP to engage with the research group directly to gain insights and demonstrate interest, noting that many researchers self-study in fields outside their major.
  • The OP expresses hesitation about approaching the research group without sufficient background knowledge, reflecting concerns about appearing arrogant.
  • Another participant advises the OP to seek guidance on necessary math and science courses to better prepare for discussions in the field.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on whether chemists have a superior understanding of thermodynamics compared to physicists. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the accessibility of non-equilibrium thermodynamics for chemistry majors.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the variability in educational backgrounds and conventions in thermodynamics, as well as the potential for interdisciplinary approaches. There are assumptions about the prerequisites needed for engaging in research that remain unexamined.

somefellasomewhere
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TL;DR Summary: I'm trying to understand what research fields I would have access to as a person who's majoring in chemistry. So how deep does thermodynamics go and how much of a foothold could I get into research on it as someone who's majoring in chemistry? Or is it really only accessible to physics majors? (non-equilibrium thermo, don't know if that makes a difference) I ask because there is a research group on non-equilibrium systems at the college I'm attending.

I'm trying to understand what research fields I would have access to as a person who's majoring in chemistry, and non-equilibrium thermodynamics has caught my attention since some professors at my college are doing research on it. I'm not at all educated on the topic, but it seems to have interesting applications in chemical kinetics and biology and I'm wondering if I would have access to the field as someone majoring in chemistry?

Thermodynamics seems to be an bottomless well of knowledge, so would this field be more favorable towards people trained in physics? Or would my pchem classes allow me a foothold in this area of research?

Also, what does the landscape of thermodynamics as a subject look like? I know there is some pretty set in stone classical understandings of the field, but statistical mechanics (whatever that is, again very clueless here) and this non-linear/non-equilibrium thermodynamics seems to present a new frontier of knowledge. Is that correct? Specifically in regards to non-equilibrium thermodynamics, do these systems present themselves more often in applications of thermodynamics (and would it follow that someone could get a foothold without formal training in physics?), or is it a central idea in and of itself?

Sorry if this is incoherent nonsense, or founded on naivety, but I'm trying to understand what career/academic options I have.
 
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somefellasomewhere said:
I ask because there is a research group on non-equilibrium systems at the college I'm attending.
You should ask them, possibly in person. Not only will you get good advice, but it'll also put you on their radar as someone who's interested and asks good questions. In general, things are more fluid (pun intended) at the research level; many researchers self study their way to competency in fields which they didn't major in.
 
Some argue that chemists/chemical engineers have a better understanding of thermodynamics than physicists.
 
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Frabjous said:
Some argue that chemists/chemical engineers have a better understanding of thermodynamics than physicists.
..., plus or minus sign conventions regarding positive/negative work.
 
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Bystander said:
..., plus or minus sign conventions regarding positive/negative work.
Even within physics, major texts use different conventions for this.
 
Muu9 said:
You should ask them, possibly in person. Not only will you get good advice, but it'll also put you on their radar as someone who's interested and asks good questions. In general, things are more fluid (pun intended) at the research level; many researchers self study their way to competency in fields which they didn't major in.
I will do this, but I don't want to seem arrogant or imposing. I might wait before I've had at least some prerequisite math and science before I go about pretending I can understand their field.
 
somefellasomewhere said:
I will do this, but I don't want to seem arrogant or imposing. I might wait before I've had at least some prerequisite math and science before I go about pretending I can understand their field.
Why wait? Ask them for suggestions on the math and science courses you should be taking. FWIW, I majored in physics, both as an undergrad and grad. In addition to the thermodynamics and statistical mechanics classes in the physics department, I also took thermodynamics classes (undergrad and grad) in the materials science and engineering department. Coincidentally, the classes in the materials science and engineering departments (different schools for undergrad and grad) were taught by professors with chemistry degrees.
 
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