How Did Michael Brown Become FEMA Director with Questionable Credentials?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the qualifications and appointment of Michael Brown as FEMA Director, exploring the implications of political patronage and the competency of individuals in critical government positions. It touches on themes of accountability, social structures, and the broader context of political appointments within the Bush administration.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Meta-discussion

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants highlight that Michael Brown's resume contains questionable claims about his qualifications, including misrepresentations of his previous roles.
  • Others argue that the appointment of individuals with inadequate qualifications to vital government positions is a systemic issue, not just an isolated case with Brown.
  • There are claims that many top FEMA officials lack experience in disaster response, raising concerns about the agency's effectiveness.
  • Some participants note that political patronage is common in government appointments, suggesting that loyalty often supersedes qualifications in such decisions.
  • A few participants reference specific instances of perceived incompetence in the Bush administration, questioning the overall impact on governance and policy continuity.
  • There is a mention of public perception and accountability, with some arguing that the electorate's choices reflect a broader acceptance of unqualified leadership.
  • Some participants challenge the notion of Brown's appointment being controversial, citing the initial congressional approval as evidence of support.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views, with some agreeing on the problematic nature of political appointments while others dispute the characterization of Brown's appointment as controversial. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of these appointments and the extent of their impact on governance.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various sources and examples to support their claims, but there are unresolved questions about the accuracy of the information presented and the broader implications of political patronage.

  • #31
Late edits to my last post.
 
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  • #32
pattylou said:
Didn't we think they were beginning to catch on many time in the past?

There is some trend downwards in his support, but not nearly as much as I'd expect. And his three big holds on people: Consistent style, religion, and financial handouts - haven't changed at all. If that's what people want...
Current approval ratings :

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N0816844.htm

A Pew Research Center poll found 67 percent of Americans believed Bush could have done more to speed up relief efforts, and just 28 percent believed he did all he could. His approval rating slipped to 40 percent, down four points since July to the lowest point Pew has recorded.
...
A CBS poll taken Sept. 6-7 found 38 percent approved of Bush's handling of the storm's aftermath, while 58 percent disapproved. That was a dramatic shift from immediately after the storm last week, when 54 percent approved and 12 percent disapproved.

The CBS poll also found confidence in Bush during a crisis had fallen and only 48 percent now view him as a strong leader -- the lowest number ever for Bush in the poll. A year ago 64 percent of voters saw Bush as a strong leader.

Bush's approval rating fell to 41 percent in a new Zogby poll, with only 36 percent giving him a passing grade on his handling of the response to the storm.

The Zogby poll also found broad pessimism among a majority of Americans after the storm, with 53 percent saying the country is headed in the wrong direction and 42 percent saying it is on the right track.

A CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll taken on Sept. 5-6 found 42 percent believed Bush did a "bad" or "terrible" job handling the storm and subsequent flooding, while 35 percent thought he performed "great" or "good."

A Washington Post/ABC News poll taken Sept. 2 offered more mixed results, with 46 percent approving of Bush's performance and 47 percent disapproving.
 
  • #33
Gokul43201 said:
Current approval ratings :

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N0816844.htm

Oddly enough,
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/index.htm poll numbers are still 'high' at http://www.rasmussenreports.com/Bush_Job_Approval.htm as of 9/9/2005. NOTE: Rasmussen only keeps a couple of days worth of daya available so anyone reading this in the future may find the %approval to be different.

Rasmussen's data shows the fed did a piss-poor job according to some Americans.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/2005/Katrina.htm
 
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  • #34
There were some horriffic screw ups made by Homeland Security. Below is just one of them.


In a budgeting oversight, Homeland Security's Office of Domestic Preparedness, the agency that oversees the Prepositioned Equipment Program, did not include the roughly $14 million it takes to run the program in its budget request for fiscal year 2005.

http://www.detnews.com/2004/metro/0412/27/B01-42646.htm

Can anyone make any sense out of the homeland security bureaucratic structure in the link below? Domestic preparedness seems to be very far down on the chain of command.

http://www.mel.nist.gov/div826/msid/sima/simconf/proc/ftp/lepage.pdf
 
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  • #35
Of course domestic preparedness isn't a priority. What do you think the military was doing in NO, protecting the people? no... they were protecting 'private property'
 
  • #36
kat said:
I'm not sure how you can really call his appointment controversial when congress put him there by a vote of..what 89 to 0? not sure the exact number of fors..by I know there were no against.
And if they had voted against him they would have been labeled obstructionist and suffered the "The president has a right to appoint who he wants." rhetoric that always accompanies any objection to Bush's appointees.

So now it is congresses fault?

Why do you keep trying to shift the blame?

Are you really that committed to the smirking chimp?
 
  • #37
OK, I just saw this. Figured I'd put it in my own FEMA thread.

Tax dollars at work, ladies and gents.

http://www.fema.gov/kids/femarap.htm
 
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  • #38
BobG said:
Taking a bigger picture, FEMA didn't do that bad a job responding in Florida last year, did he? Or were things better when only hit Florida instead of several states, simultaneously? (neighboring states are in a better position to help out). Or is Jeb Bush just better at handling hurricanes on his own than Louisiana, Mississippi, and Alabama? Or is the federal government just more responsive when a swing state is hit by disaster in an election year?
C-SPAN had a congresswoman from Florida on Wednesday with all kinds of proof that for Florida's disaster was more in line with Brownies qualifications, ie campaigning for Bush. I tried to find it on there site but it doesn't seem to be archived. I don't have time right now but if anyone can find it and post it you will See why FEMA did such a wonderful job.

One thing I remember was that they gave out twice as many checks for death benefits as people who were killed in the hurricane.
 
  • #39
Skyhunter said:
C-SPAN had a congresswoman from Florida on Wednesday with all kinds of proof that for Florida's disaster was more in line with Brownies qualifications, ie campaigning for Bush. I tried to find it on there site but it doesn't seem to be archived. I don't have time right now but if anyone can find it and post it you will See why FEMA did such a wonderful job.

One thing I remember was that they gave out twice as many checks for death benefits as people who were killed in the hurricane.

Ha ha! That's great.
 
  • #40
Skyhunter said:
C-SPAN had a congresswoman from Florida on Wednesday with all kinds of proof that for Florida's disaster was more in line with Brownies qualifications, ie campaigning for Bush. I tried to find it on there site but it doesn't seem to be archived. I don't have time right now but if anyone can find it and post it you will See why FEMA did such a wonderful job.

One thing I remember was that they gave out twice as many checks for death benefits as people who were killed in the hurricane.
You're talking about http://www.bocaratonnews.com/index.php?src=news&prid=12590&category=Local%20News where FEMA paid out $30 million to 10,000 Miami-Dade residents (the hurricane missed them by a hundred miles) and paid for funerals of folks still living.

Of course, payback is... http://www.sptimes.com/2005/09/03/State/FEMA_refusal_upsets_S.shtml . This year, residents who actually did sustain damage can't get FEMA assistance (so much for Jeb's influence with George, eh?)
 
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  • #41
TRCSF said:
OK, I just saw this. Figured I'd put it in my own FEMA thread.

Tax dollars at work, ladies and gents.

http://www.fema.gov/kids/femarap.htm
That's not right, indoctrinating children with propaganda, and people say the Bush administration isn't anything like Nazi Germany.
Skyhunter said:
C-SPAN had a congresswoman from Florida on Wednesday with all kinds of proof that for Florida's disaster was more in line with Brownies qualifications, ie campaigning for Bush. I tried to find it on there site but it doesn't seem to be archived. I don't have time right now but if anyone can find it and post it you will See why FEMA did such a wonderful job.

One thing I remember was that they gave out twice as many checks for death benefits as people who were killed in the hurricane.
And, um, why do I suspect things are different in Jeb's state...?
 
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  • #42
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050909/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/katrina_washington

Brown, who had come to personify a relief operation widely panned as bumbling, will be replaced by Coast Guard Vice Adm. Thad W. Allen. Allen had been in charge of relief, recovery and rescue efforts for New Orleans.

At the White House, spokesman Scott McClellan said the decision to reassign Brown had been made by Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff and that Bush supported it.

Note: He is still the director of FEMA, but he's been ordered out of Louisiana
 
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  • #43
loseyourname said:
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050909/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/katrina_washington

Note: He is still the director of FEMA, but he's been ordered out of Louisiana
Yep, I posted this in another thread:
2CentsWorth said:
Though as usual the Bush administration is a day late and a dollar short, for the first time an inept crony is being...asked to step down! Good job Brownie! We'll find another position for ya, don't worry.
Bush won't fire anyone, and we all know he won't because that would be admitting a mistake.
 
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  • #44
Has anyone considered that Brown may have been a fall-guy?
 
  • #45
BobG said:
You're talking about Hurricane Frances where FEMA paid out $30 million to 10,000 Miami-Dade residents (the hurricane missed them by a hundred miles) and paid for funerals of folks still living.

Of course, payback is... http://www.sptimes.com/2005/09/03/State/FEMA_refusal_upsets_S.shtml. This year, residents who actually did sustain damage can't get FEMA assistance (so much for Jeb's influence with George, eh?)
Thank you BobG.

Yes that was the disaster I was talking about.
 
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  • #46
oldunion said:
Has anyone considered that Brown may have been a fall-guy?
He was still Bush's choice. The apple does not fall very far from the tree.
 
  • #47
oldunion said:
Has anyone considered that Brown may have been a fall-guy?

If he wasn't before he is now.
 
  • #48
BobG said:
You're talking about Hurricane Frances where FEMA paid out $30 million to 10,000 Miami-Dade residents (the hurricane missed them by a hundred miles) and paid for funerals of folks still living.

It wasn't FEMA's fault about the hurricane Frances bungle. It was the crooks who were working for them that caused the problem.

FEMA's inspectors included criminals


Agency relied on them for honest reports

By Megan O'Matz
and Sally Kestin By Megan O'Matz and Sally Kestin Staff Writers
Posted April 24 2005


Government inspectors entrusted to enter disaster victims' homes and verify damage claims include criminals with records for embezzlement, drug dealing and robbery, a South Florida Sun-Sentinel investigation has found.

Federal officials have pointed to the inspectors as their primary defense against accusations of widespread fraud for their payout of more than $31 million in Hurricane Frances disaster aid in Miami-Dade -- a county spared hurricane-force winds.
 
  • #49
At the White House, spokesman Scott McClellan said the decision to reassign Brown had been made by Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff and that Bush supported it.
I thought that Bush thought that Brownie was doing a great job? :rolleyes:
 
  • #50
Manchot said:
I thought that Bush thought that Brownie was doing a great job? :rolleyes:

He did until Karl Rove told him differently. :smile:
 
  • #51
edward said:
If he wasn't before he is now.
That's probably why he hasn't been fired yet. They need to keep him around to play the role of sacrificial lamb when the inquiry reports. Get rid of him too soon and the public will be baying for someone else's blood.
 
  • #52
Gokul43201 said:
And what on Earth was Congress thinking when they approved the nomination ?! :eek:
Doesn't look like they paid much attention, only five Senators were present at his hearing.

NOMINATION OF MICHAEL D. BROWN

----------


WEDNESDAY, JUNE 19, 2002

U.S. Senate,
Committee on Governmental Affairs,
Washington, DC.
The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:37 a.m., in
room SD-342, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Joseph I.
Lieberman, Chairman of the Committee, presiding.
Present: Senators Lieberman, Akaka, Bunning, and Bennett.
Here is the complete transcript.

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=107_senate_hearings&docid=f:81311.wais
 
  • #53
Skyhunter said:
Doesn't look like they paid much attention, only five Senators were present at his hearing.


Here is the complete transcript.

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=107_senate_hearings&docid=f:81311.wais
That's the hearing for deputy director. Brown didn't become director until March 2003. It's funny how there probably wasn't that much interest in who became deputy. Come time for a new director, moving the deputy up to director probably didn't stir much interest, either, since the deputy would be the likely successor.
 
  • #54
BobG said:
That's the hearing for deputy director. Brown didn't become director until March 2003. It's funny how there probably wasn't that much interest in who became deputy. Come time for a new director, moving the deputy up to director probably didn't stir much interest, either, since the deputy would be the likely successor.
Hmm... that seems to be the method of operation with Rice, Bolton, and now Roberts--Oh wait, Roberts didn't even have the first job yet.

In reply to your post in the locked thread, I was reading that Washington Post article this morning as well, and it is a pretty good update. In regard to satellite phones, and that all but one are in use in Iraq, a question asked about personal cell phones still stands.

Ultimately what I wonder is, good Lord, how much tax payer money has been spent on the new and improved Homeland Security? I always doubted it was worth much if only because of our open borders. And now with the cost of this sad disaster, I find it even more difficult to accept the cost of the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. I don't know if I can take three more years of the nonsense.

Edit: Interestingly, as stated in the book “Bush on the Couch: Inside the Mind of the President” published in 2004 by Dr. Justin Frank - “The pattern of blame and denial, which recovering alcoholics work so hard to break, seems to be ingrained in the alcoholic personality; it's rarely limited to his or her drinking,” he says. “The habit of placing blame and denying responsibility is so prevalent in George W. Bush's personal history that it is apparently triggered by even the mildest threat.”

The editorial review by Publishers Weekly makes the observation: "...then Karl Rove, the Cabinet, and both houses of Congress belong in group therapy with him."

And thus goes the "blame game" ...
 
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  • #55
Reports are popping up that Brown resigned. No official link yet.

[edit] http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/12/national/nationalspecial/12cnd-fema.html

So, Brown says the focus must be on FEMA thus he feels compelled to resign. This doesn't jive with past errors in WH judgement. The focus must be on the military so Rumsfeld must resign---nope didn't happen. The focus must be on WH integrity so Rove must resign---nope. The focus must be on factual reporting of data so Rice must resign---nope, she got herself a lateral job change.
 
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  • #56
faust9 said:
Reports are popping up that Brown resigned. No official link yet.

[edit] http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/12/national/nationalspecial/12cnd-fema.html

So, Brown says the focus must be on FEMA thus he feels compelled to resign. This doesn't jive with past errors in WH judgement. The focus must be on the military so Rumsfeld must resign---nope didn't happen. The focus must be on WH integrity so Rove must resign---nope. The focus must be on factual reporting of data so Rice must resign---nope, she got herself a lateral job change.
If Brown hasn't be asked to resign, then I guess he doesn't want to go down with the ship like a loyal captain.
 
  • #57
He did resign today, which to me was a wise choice.
 
  • #58
It's a start.
 
  • #59
I presume Brown gets to keep his federal pension. I just have to wonder if it is more than someone on welfare. :rolleyes:
 
  • #60
Astronuc said:
I presume Brown gets to keep his federal pension. I just have to wonder if it is more than someone on welfare. :rolleyes:
You just reminded me of the judge who made the slum lord live in one of his slums as punishment. You don't suppose we could make Brownie do the same?
 

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