How Do Accretion Disks Around Black Holes Form and Function?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the formation and function of accretion disks around black holes, exploring both theoretical and observational aspects. Participants delve into the mechanics of particle movement within these disks, the role of angular momentum, and the challenges in understanding related phenomena such as jets emitted from these disks.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants explain that accretion disks form from matter falling into black holes due to conservation of angular momentum, leading to a planar structure similar to that of the solar system.
  • There are claims that particles within the disk deviate from Keplerian orbits due to relativistic effects and collisions, which contribute to the high temperatures observed in accretion disks.
  • A participant expresses confusion about the theoretical underpinnings of accretion disks and seeks recommendations for further reading.
  • Another participant questions the observations that led to the proposal of accretion disks and discusses the distinction between the existence of a disk and the process of accretion onto a central object.
  • Some participants note that while the existence of accretion disks is well-supported by observations, the theoretical understanding of the accretion process itself remains less clear, particularly regarding the role of turbulence.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit a mix of agreement on the basic formation principles of accretion disks while expressing differing views on the theoretical challenges and observational evidence. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the specifics of the accretion process and the nature of jets emitted from these disks.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in their understanding of the theoretical models and the empirical evidence for accretion disks, particularly concerning the complexities of turbulence and its role in the accretion process.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students and enthusiasts interested in astrophysics, particularly those seeking to understand the dynamics of black holes and accretion disks.

vitus988
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How is it formed? How do particles move on it?
 
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The accretion disk is simply the cloud of matter (if any) falling into the black hole. It forms a disk for the same reason that, e.g., our solar system is planar: conservation of angular momentum. The particles move along trajectories that differ from Keplerian orbits in two ways: (1) the closer you get to the event horizon, the bigger the relativistic corrections to Newtonian gravity, and (2) they collide with one another sometimes. The collisions are the reason the accretion disk is so hot.
 
bcrowell said:
The accretion disk is simply the cloud of matter (if any) falling into the black hole. It forms a disk for the same reason that, e.g., our solar system is planar: conservation of angular momentum. The particles move along trajectories that differ from Keplerian orbits in two ways: (1) the closer you get to the event horizon, the bigger the relativistic corrections to Newtonian gravity, and (2) they collide with one another sometimes. The collisions are the reason the accretion disk is so hot.

I am new to the concept or the field. I've read wiki about it but still confused. I would like to get a more detailed theoretical view but don't know where to start. Any book or paper for recommendation?
 
vitus988 said:
I am new to the concept or the field. I've read wiki about it but still confused. I would like to get a more detailed theoretical view but don't know where to start. Any book or paper for recommendation?

What's the level of your background in physics, and specifically relativity?
 
bcrowell said:
What's the level of your background in physics, and specifically relativity?

I am an senior year undergraduate majored in physics in China.
I took an introduction course to general relativity for undergraduate. Knowing some basics about BH. I am trying to get to a deeper insight through English textbooks or papers.
 
Last edited:
vitus988 said:
I am an senior year undergraduate majored in physics in China.
I took an introduction course to general relativity for undergraduate. Knowing some basics about BH. I am trying to get to a deeper insight through English textbooks or papers.

That's good -- it sounds like you have a strong background. Can you be more specific about what point is causing you difficulty right now? Do you just want to learn more about black holes, or is there something related to accretion disks that you don't understand?
 
bcrowell said:
That's good -- it sounds like you have a strong background. Can you be more specific about what point is causing you difficulty right now? Do you just want to learn more about black holes, or is there something related to accretion disks that you don't understand?

Here is the Wiki link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accretion_disc

It contains much information, however, without further explanation. How the accretion disk firstly proposed? On wiki it is only :" In the 1940s, models were first derived from basic physical principles." Then there is "In order to agree with observations". What are the observations? Besides, there is "Unsolved problems in physics: Accretion disc jets: Why do the discs surrounding certain objects, such as the nuclei of active galaxies, emit radiation jets along their polar axes? These jets are invoked by astronomers to do everything from getting rid of angular momentum in a forming star to reionizing the universe (in AGNs), but their origin is still not understood." Why jets can't be explained? Is it in contradiction with existing theories, or can't be derived from them?
 
vitus988 said:
It contains much information, however, without further explanation. How the accretion disk firstly proposed?
I think they're simply observed directly. They also help to explain the planar nature of the solar system, and they arise naturally due to conservation of angular momentum.

On wiki it is only :" In the 1940s, models were first derived from basic physical principles." Then there is "In order to agree with observations". What are the observations?
We look through a telescope and see accretion disks.

What may be confusing you is the distinction between two different things: (1) the existence of a disk, as opposed to a spherically contracting cloud, and (2) the fact that material in the disk can actually accrete onto a small object at the center.

As an example of the empirical evidence for #1, we look through telescopes and see the disks. As an example of empirical evidence for #2, we observe that our solar system contains the sun, rather than containing a large disk of hot gas that wasn't able to gather at the center.

Theoretically, #1 is well understood as arising from conservation of angular momentum plus viscosity. #2 is not as well understood theoretically, and that's what the paragraph in the WP article is talking about. I think the story is that basically you can't reproduce #2 without invoking turbulence, but turbulence is difficult to calculate precisely.
 

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