How do atomic orbitals combine to form molecular orbitals?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the combination of atomic orbitals to form molecular orbitals, specifically in the context of bonding between atoms such as sodium and chlorine, as well as carbon in methane and oxygen in water. Participants explore the nature of molecular orbitals, hybridization, and the involvement of core and valence electrons in these processes.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether all atomic orbitals combine during bonding or only specific bonding orbitals, using sodium and chlorine as an example.
  • Others argue that only valence electrons participate in bonding, with hybridization of orbitals occurring in covalent bonds, such as carbon's sp3 hybridization in methane.
  • A participant expresses confusion about molecular orbitals and their formation, particularly in relation to diagrams that illustrate sp3 hybridization.
  • Some participants suggest that molecular orbital theory is not fully understood until advanced studies, indicating a need for a comprehensive grasp of the topic.
  • One participant asserts that molecular orbitals involve all electrons in a molecule, including core electrons, and that the formation of these orbitals depends on the relative energies of the atomic orbitals involved.
  • Another participant highlights that while molecular orbital theory is widely accepted, it may be incomplete and serves as a better model than valence bond theory in certain situations.
  • There is a mention of the specific case of water, detailing how its molecular orbitals are formed and the roles of both core and valence electrons in this process.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the involvement of atomic orbitals in molecular orbital formation, with some emphasizing the role of valence electrons and others asserting that all electrons are involved. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the completeness and applicability of molecular orbital theory compared to valence bond theory.

Contextual Notes

Some participants indicate that molecular orbital theory is often introduced in pieces throughout chemistry education, leading to gaps in understanding. There are also references to specific examples and diagrams that may not fully convey the complexities of molecular orbital formation.

CrimpJiggler
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When 2 atoms bond, do all their atomic orbitals combine, or is it just the bonding orbitals that combine? For example when sodium and chlorine bond, do all their orbitals combine or is it just sodiums 3s orbital that combines with chlorines 3p orbital?
 
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CrimpJiggler said:
When 2 atoms bond, do all their atomic orbitals combine, or is it just the bonding orbitals that combine? For example when sodium and chlorine bond, do all their orbitals combine or is it just sodiums 3s orbital that combines with chlorines 3p orbital?

NaCl is a bad example because the bond is highly ionic (Na+ + Cl-). If you want to talk about molecular orbitals you need to talk about high covalent character bonds. And the answer is that only the valence electrons participate in the bonding. Carbon hybridizes the 2s and the 2p(x,y,z) orbitals into spn orbitals, where n varies with number of sigma bonds.

IE for methane you get an sp3 where the 2s, 2px, 2py, 2pz have hybridized to form 4 molecular orbitals.
 
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I'm still completely lost. I know how atomic orbital hybridization works. Its molecular orbitals that I'm trying to understand. Heres a diagram for methane:
methane_MO.jpg

I like that diagram but I have no idea what the hell I'm looking at. Carbon has 4 sp3 valence orbitals. Hydrogen has a single s orbital. I would have assumed that all these orbitals combine to give 8 identical molecular orbitals. Thats not what I'm seeing on that diagram.
 
Take a look at: http://www.upei.ca/~chem342/Resources/Reviews/Molecular_Orbital_Tutorial.pdf

Maybe it will help you. MO theory is not something I have a solid grasp on, its one of those topics in Chemistry where you are exposed to bits and pieces as you advance but don't really learn thoroughly until advanced undergrad-graduate level courses (p-chem, inorganic chem, quantum chem).
 
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CrimpJiggler said:
Carbon has 4 sp3 valence orbitals.
In MO theory, although possible, it is not usual to start from hybrid orbitals which is a concept of valence bond theory. So Carbon has one s and 3 p orbitals which get combined in principle with all other orbitals from all other atoms in the molecule.
 
Yanick said:
Take a look at: http://www.upei.ca/~chem342/Resources/Reviews/Molecular_Orbital_Tutorial.pdf

Maybe it will help you. MO theory is not something I have a solid grasp on, its one of those topics in Chemistry where you are exposed to bits and pieces as you advance but don't really learn thoroughly until advanced undergrad-graduate level courses (p-chem, inorganic chem, quantum chem).

The reason I'm so determined to get a good grasp of it is because I'm in 3rd year of an applied chem course and I'm coming across various concepts in inorganic, organometallic and quantum chemistry that require (well at least I require it) an understanding of MO theory. For example I want to understand back bonding in CO ligands well but I can't really get my head around the idea that the metal donates pi electrons to the ligands antibonding MO. I get that much but I need to see the big picture. I suspect that MO theory is very incomplete and the only reason its been accepted into mainstream chemistry is because we have no alternative. We don't have a decent model to explain various things that can't be explained by valence bond theory so the MO model is better than nothing.
 
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CrimpJiggler said:
I suspect that MO theory is very incomplete and the only reason its been accepted into mainstream chemistry is because we have no alternative. We don't have a decent model to explain various things that can't be explained by valence bond theory so the MO model is better than nothing.
No, certainly not. Almost any property of a molecule can be calculated nowadays to almost arbitrary precision starting from either MO or VB calculations + more sophisticated corrections.
However, the MO and VB methods start somehow from different limiting cases to tackle the bonding in molecules. I.e., the MO theory is best when the electrons are rather weakly bound to the atoms, that's why it performs best to describe metals and pi bonding systems. The VB approximation starts out from the isolated atoms and treats bonding as a rather small correction. That's why it performs best in non-metallic compounds.
 
Going back to the original question, molecular orbitals by definition involve the whole molecule, and all electrons are involved in MO formation, both core and valence electrons. However, how these orbitals are formed depends on the relative energies of the atomic orbitals involved. For example, let's take H2O. From an atomic orbital perspective, O has two 1s electrons, two 2s electrons, and 4 2p electrons, while H has one 1s electron. When O and H combine to form water, the atomic orbitals of O and H combine to receive the ten electrons (8 from O, 1 from each H). Five of those new molecular orbitals will be occupied by the electrons: 1a1, 2a1, 1b2, 3a1, and 1b1 (in ascending order of energy).

The 1a1 orbital in the water molecule is similar in energy to the 1s orbital of O, hence you can think of it as coming from the core electrons of O (not from the overlap between O and H).

The 2a1, 1b2, and 3a1 orbitals have densities around the O and H nuclei, hence these are the ones mostly responsible for the binding of these two atoms.

The 1b1 comes from the non-interacting 2py O orbital and it is essentially a non-bonding orbital.

Water has also three unoccupied antibonding molecular orbitals of higher energy than the 3a1 orbital: 4a1, 2b2, and 3b2. It has been reported that the 4a1 and 2b2 antibonding orbitals are partially involved in the O-H bond formation, by receiving electrons from the 1b1 orbital.

In summary, the electronic configuration of water using molecular orbitals can be written as 1a12 2a12 1b22 3a12 1b12. Notice how all atomic orbitals are involved in the formation of the molecular orbitals, even though the origin of the molecular orbital may be from either or both atoms involved in the bonding in this case.

Most MO diagrams show only the valence bonds, so you may get the impression that only the valence electrons are involved in MO formation, when in fact all electrons are involved in MOs, but only the valence electrons are involved in the bonding.

The methane case is discussed here with nice pictures: http://csi.chemie.tu-darmstadt.de/a...mel/tutorials/orbitals/molecular/methane.html

I hope this helps.
 
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