How do black holes attract light?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of black holes and their interaction with light, particularly focusing on how gravitational forces affect light despite its lack of mass. Participants explore concepts from general relativity, the curvature of space-time, and the implications of energy and mass in gravitational contexts.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether light has mass and how gravitational forces can affect it, noting that light has zero invariant mass but possesses energy.
  • One participant explains that gravity from black holes curves space-time, causing light to follow this curvature, akin to a ball rolling towards a depression on a trampoline.
  • Another participant asserts that all energy creates gravity and is affected by it, suggesting that a black hole could theoretically be created from light alone.
  • There is a discussion about the terminology of "mass," with some participants clarifying that "mass" often refers to invariant mass, which can lead to misunderstandings regarding light's interaction with gravity.
  • Concerns are raised about the informal description of light following a "straight line" in space-time, with references to geodesic equations and the phenomenon of gravitational lensing as an example of light's path being influenced by gravity.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between mass, energy, and gravity, with no consensus reached on the implications of these concepts for understanding how black holes attract light.

Contextual Notes

Some statements rely on specific definitions of mass and energy, and the discussion includes unresolved nuances regarding the nature of light's path in curved space-time.

Nabin kalauni
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I recently studied about black holes and hiw they attract light too. But does light have mass? If it doesn't, I don't see any way how gravitational forces affect light. I have heard a bit about wave particle duality. But could you make it more clearer? I have no idea of relativity or particle physics or any other advanced stuff like that.
 
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Gravity from black holes (or any object with mass) curve space-time. Time slows down near the object. When the light follows a straight space-time line it curves toward the object.
 
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In general relativity, gravity is a curvature of space time.
You can imagine that the ball is placed on the trampoline, you will see the curvature of its surface, if you place a small ball nearby, the ball will start to move to the center due to the curvature.

Similar case for black hole, then the light is attracted because it follow the curvature created by black hole.
 
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FactChecker said:
Gravity from black holes (or any object with mass)

Mass is not related to gravity. All energy creates gravity and all energy is affected by gravity. In fact, Einstiens equations for gravity have no mention of mass.

You could even (theoretically) create a black hole out of nothing but light.
 
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newjerseyrunner said:
Mass is not related to gravity.

I wouldn't quite word it that way, but I get what you're trying to get across. Objects with mass certainly create gravity, but an amount of energy equal to mc2 will create the same amount of gravity that the mass m would.
 
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Nabin kalauni said:
I recently studied about black holes and hiw they attract light too. But does light have mass?

Depends on what you call "mass". Light has zero "invariant mass" but it has energy, which is "relativistic mass".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four-momentum
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invariant_mass

Invariant mass (in units where c=1) is simply sqrt(E^2 - (px^2 + py^2 + pz^2)), or simply the norm of four-momentum. For particles moving at the speed of light, it's zero: E^2 = (px^2 + py^2 + pz^2) - they move by the same distance in space and in time coordinates.

Term "mass" nowadays almost always implies "invariant mass", but this has the unfortunate side-effect that when people hear that "particle X has zero mass", they incorrectly assume that it is not affected by gravity.
 
nikkkom said:
Term "mass" nowadays almost always implies "invariant mass", but this has the unfortunate side-effect that when people hear that "particle X has zero mass", they incorrectly assume that it is not affected by gravity.

Who are these people?
 
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FactChecker said:
When the light follows a straight space-time line it curves toward the object.

Does it follow a straight space-time line? Two straight lines intersect in one point only but in folded space-time two light beams can intersect in more than one point.
 
DrStupid said:
Does it follow a straight space-time line?
I am not expert enough on this to give an authoritative answer, but I know that the path of light is found by solving a geodesic equation in relativity. I'm afraid that my calling it a "straight line" might have been too informal.
Two straight lines intersect in one point only but in folded space-time two light beams can intersect in more than one point.
Right. I think that is why gravitational lensing happens, where light from a single source that would be blocked by a large gravitational object appears to be coming around both sides.
 
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