How Do Charge-less Molecules Like Methane Absorb Light?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the mechanisms by which charge-less molecules, specifically methane (CH4), absorb light, exploring the relationship between molecular vibrations and electromagnetic radiation. Participants examine the concepts of molecular transitions, resonance, and the nature of absorption in different phases of matter.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that while methane is globally neutral, it is composed of charged particles, and changes in vibrational or electronic states can affect charge distribution, allowing coupling with the electromagnetic field.
  • Another participant explains that vibrational transitions in molecules occur when there is a change in the dipole moment, with polar molecules absorbing IR light while non-polar molecules like CH4 can absorb under certain vibrational modes.
  • It is mentioned that certain vibrational modes of CH4 are active in the IR spectrum, while others, such as the purely symmetric stretch, do not lead to photon absorption.
  • Participants discuss the concept of resonance, questioning whether the frequency of light absorbed by CH4 corresponds to its vibrational frequency, specifically relating to the absorption of 3.3 µm light.
  • One participant introduces the idea that in different phases (gas vs. liquid/solid), the absorption spectrum behaves differently due to molecular interactions, and mentions rovibrational coupling affecting absorption frequencies.
  • There is a repeated inquiry about the relationship between the frequency of light and the vibrational frequency of the CH4 molecule, with some participants affirming that they are indeed related.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between light frequency and molecular vibration frequency, with some affirming a connection while others seek clarification. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the precise nature of this relationship.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note that the absorption process may involve additional complexities, such as different transition mechanisms and the effects of molecular interactions in various phases of matter. There is also mention of the limitations of first-order approximations in explaining these phenomena.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying molecular spectroscopy, physical chemistry, or anyone exploring the interactions between light and matter at the molecular level.

Sotinam
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We know that molecules absorb light based on their electronical, rotational, and vibrational transitions and the governed transition rules (so that each molecule has its own "fingerprints"). But I do not know why it happens?

Lets simplify it a little:

A methane molecule, for example, is charge-less (the net summation of p+e=0) while we know CH4 absorbs the photons with 3.3um wavelength. Now the question is why/how this happens? Why electromagnetic wave (photons) interacts with a charge-less "thing"?

Any help and/or advice is appreciated,
S
 
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Molecules are not charge-less even though they are globally electrically neutral. They are still composed of positive nuclei and negative electrons. Changing the vibrational or electronic state will change the charge distribution, and therefore these can couple with the electromagnetic field.

The example of CH4 is a good one to explore some subtleties of this. Generally speaking, a vibrational transition will occur when it leads to a change in the dipole moment. If a molecule is polar (e.g., CO), then it can absorb IR light and be excited vibrationally, as this will necessarily change the dipole. However, a non-polar molecule (e.g., N2, O2) will not absorb in the infrared, as the charge symmetry is preserved even with vibrational excitation (the dipole moment is always 0). In the case of CH4, which is non-polar, certain modes will be active in the IR, such as an symmetric stretch, where some bonds contract at the same time others lengthen. But the purely symmetric stretch (breathing mode), where all bonds vibrate in phase, is not active (there will be no absorption of photons that can excite this mode).

Note that this is all true to first order only. There can be additional transition mechanisms (such as electric quadrupole, magnetic dipole, ...) or other processes (e.g., Raman) that can excite such vibrations. But dipole transitions are by far the strongest transitions in molecules, and the main reason why a molecule will absorb (or not) photons at a certain wavelength.

Rotations are a bit different, as they depend on the relative orientation of the molecule and the field. But it is again due to the coupling of the dipole (or induced dipole) of the molecule with the EM field.
 
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DrClaude said:
Molecules are not charge-less even though they are globally electrically neutral. They are still composed of positive nuclei and negative electrons. Changing the vibrational or electronic state will change the charge distribution, and therefore these can couple with the electromagnetic field.

The example of CH4 is a good one to explore some subtleties of this. Generally speaking, a vibrational transition will occur when it leads to a change in the dipole moment. If a molecule is polar (e.g., CO), then it can absorb IR light and be excited vibrationally, as this will necessarily change the dipole. However, a non-polar molecule (e.g., N2, O2) will not absorb in the infrared, as the charge symmetry is preserved even with vibrational excitation (the dipole moment is always 0). In the case of CH4, which is non-polar, certain modes will be active in the IR, such as an symmetric stretch, where some bonds contract at the same time others lengthen. But the purely symmetric stretch (breathing mode), where all bonds vibrate in phase, is not active (there will be no absorption of photons that can excite this mode).

Note that this is all true to first order only. There can be additional transition mechanisms (such as electric quadrupole, magnetic dipole, ...) or other processes (e.g., Raman) that can excite such vibrations. But dipole transitions are by far the strongest transitions in molecules, and the main reason why a molecule will absorb (or not) photons at a certain wavelength.

Rotations are a bit different, as they depend on the relative orientation of the molecule and the field. But it is again due to the coupling of the dipole (or induced dipole) of the molecule with the EM field.
Thank you for all this helpful information.

Just one more question: How can we relate absorption phenomenon to the "resonance" which happens when the frequency of applied external source is very close to the natural frequency of the vibrating objects. In the case of CH4 , for example, can we say the CH4 molecule is vibrating with the frequency of c/3.3um (c is the speed of light) and when the light with this frequency hits the molecule, resonance occurs and so the energy of the molecule increases?
 
Can anyone please give me an advice on the above/below question:

Can we relate the molecular vibration to resonance effect? i.e. Does it mean that if CH4 absorbs 3.3 um light, it is really vibrating with the frequency of c/3.3 um (c is the speed of light) and that is why higher or lower wavelengths are not absorbed?
 
A substance that is in the gas phase absorbs EM radiation of frequencies that are equal to the vibration frequencies of its normal modes. In liquid or solid phase there aren't similar sharp spikes in the absorption spectrum, because the interaction between the molecules in condensed matter affects the absorption process. Sometimes there is also rovibrational coupling which means that molecules that are in different rotation states vibrate at slightly different frequencies, this can happen even in the gas phase.

A photon of a certain wavelength can also cause stimulated emission of a photon of same frequency from the molecule.
 
Thank you for your explanation. With all due respect, I think this is not the answer of my question though.

Maybe I should rephrase it:

All I am asking is if CH4 molecule (for example) is vibrating with the frequency of light (in this case, c/3.3 um=9.1*10^13 Hz) that is absorbed or light frequency and vibration frequency are two different aspects of absorption process?
 
Sotinam said:
All I am asking is if CH4 molecule (for example) is vibrating with the frequency of light (in this case, c/3.3 um=9.1*10^13 Hz) that is absorbed or light frequency and vibration frequency are two different aspects of absorption process?

Yes it is. That's what I said.
 
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hilbert2 said:
Yes it is. That's what I said.
Thank you
 

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