How do hydroelectric dams generate power?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mechanics of hydroelectric dams and how they convert gravitational potential energy of water into electrical energy. Participants explore various aspects of energy transfer, the behavior of water as it moves through turbines, and the implications of conservation of energy in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express confusion about how energy is transferred to the turbine, questioning whether water slows down or maintains its speed as it passes through the turbine.
  • One participant suggests that if the water does not lose energy, it implies the creation of energy, which contradicts the law of conservation of energy.
  • Another participant explains that in a reaction turbine, energy is transferred through a drop in pressure rather than a change in kinetic energy.
  • Some argue that the average flow velocity of water does not change significantly, while individual molecules may lose kinetic energy upon striking the turbine.
  • There is a discussion about the role of potential energy and pressure differentials in generating power, with some emphasizing the importance of gravitational potential energy from the reservoir.
  • Participants debate the implications of removing the turbine, with some suggesting that flow rates would increase and questioning how pressure dynamics would change without the turbine's restriction.
  • One participant raises a related question about pressure energy and the behavior of water under external forces, indicating a broader inquiry into fluid dynamics.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the mechanics of energy transfer in hydroelectric dams. Multiple competing views and interpretations of how water behaves as it interacts with turbines remain evident throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the assumptions made regarding the behavior of water under varying pressure conditions and the definitions of energy types involved in the discussion. The complexity of fluid dynamics and the specifics of turbine operation are not fully resolved.

  • #31
A.T. said:
But the piston is not moving if the fluid is incompressible.
Yes, that's my point: In order for the water to do work, the piston has to move.
And my question is, where exactly the error lies.
It lies in the fact that you're double-counting the gravitational potential energy. In the hyperphysics page on Bernoulli's equation, it lists 3 pressures:

-Static pressure
-Velocity pressure
-Hydrostatic pressure

The pressure at the bottom of a hydro dam is hydrostatic pressure, but you're making the mistake that if you can measure it with a pressure gauge, it must be static pressure, so you're double-counting it. For your example of putting a weight on a volume of water, you've substituted that weight for the extra water column, changing nothing: you're still double-counting gravitational potential energy by using the static pressure term when it doesn't apply.
I don't quite see how you can claim that pressure_energy and potential_energy represent the same quantity here. Why would you count the same thing twice?
You shouldn't: the equation isn't doing that, you are.
That is how I understand it too. And pressure energy is something different, that is accounted for separately.
Yes. And in both the case of the hydro dam and the case of your piston-cylinder-weight, the [static] pressure energy is zero (if you consider the weight to still have its gpe).
 
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  • #32
russ_watters said:
In the hyperphysics page on Bernoulli's equation, it lists 3 pressures:
-Static pressure
-Velocity pressure
-Hydrostatic pressure
At this web page, I see the description potential energy per unit volume for the term ρ g h, not the term "hydrostatic pressure":

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/pber.html

Side note - the hyperphysics page also describes pressure as pressure energy, but pressure is energy per unit volume, the same as the other two terms in the equation.

hydrostatic pressure

Assuming I'm not misinterpreting this, hydrostatic pressure is the static pressure of a fluid due to gravity and is equal to ρ g h as described in this wiki article, but this is different than the ρ g h term used in Bernoulli's equation, which is a potential energy term:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrostatic_pressure#Hydrostatic_pressure

Note that hydrostatic pressure increases with depth in a fluid, while the gravitational potential energy per unit volume term in Bernoulli's equation decreases with depth. Hydrostatic pressure corresponds to part or all of the static pressure term in Bernoulli's equation.
 
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