How Do I Factorize Large Polynomials by Hand?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the factorization of large polynomials, particularly in the context of cryptography. Participants explore methods for factorization by hand, the implications of irreducibility and primitiveness, and the challenges associated with these tasks.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses a need to factor large polynomials for cryptographic purposes, noting that they have already used Maple to find factorizations.
  • Another participant suggests that the polynomials cannot be factored using real numbers and mentions the existence of one real root and two pairs of complex conjugate roots.
  • A third participant questions the relevance of the original post, suggesting that the problem may not involve actual calculations and proposes using the rational root theorem to minimize cases for factorization.
  • One participant points out that the application is likely over the integers and mentions that a specific polynomial is primitive despite being reducible, challenging the initial assumption about irreducibility and primitiveness.
  • There is a consensus that there is no simple formula for factoring quintic polynomials, as they are generally not solvable by radicals.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relevance of certain approaches to factorization and the implications of irreducibility and primitiveness. There is no clear consensus on the best method for hand factorization or the implications of the properties of the polynomials discussed.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations in the methods available for factorization, particularly for quintic polynomials, and the dependence on the field over which the factorization is being considered. There are unresolved assumptions regarding the nature of the polynomials and their coefficients.

miahmad
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Basically, i am doing some cryptography, i need to show that a polynomial i have, which is not irreducibale, implies it is not primitive.

I am having trouble factorising these rather large polynomials.

I have checked to see whether the following polynomials are irreducible and found there factorisation with maple.
Could someone please teach me how you would do these by hand.
x5+x+1=(x2+x+1)(x3-x2+1)

Another example:

x5+x4+1=(x2+x+1)(x3-x+1)

an explanation of either would be gratefuly appreciated, thank you.
 
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Since you've already solved these using maple, I assume you know that they can not be factored using real numbers, where best that you can do is what you already had. There is one real root and 2 pairs of complex conjugate roots, which is what you need for the polynomial to have real coefficients.

Since your polynomials factor to a cubic times a quadratic you just need to solve each separately. Thus you need the quadratic formula and the cubic formula.
The quadratic formula is derived via completing the square.
The standard derivation of the cubic is on the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cubic_function" .
 
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Your post doesn't make sense. Could you clarify? The problem you seem to be trying to solve has nothing to do with actually performing any sort of calculation, so I don't understand why you are asking about how to factor polynomials.

For this specific example, the proof of the rational root theorem could be adapted to minimize the number of cases to consider, at which point you could just solve an equation to see if there was a nontrivial factorization.

What ring are you trying to factor over? Even if the integers, you could get a head start by factoring first over one or more finite fields.

I'm not sure why you would want to factor by hand, though...
 
miahmad said:
Basically, i am doing some cryptography, i need to show that a polynomial i have, which is not irreducibale, implies it is not primitive.

I am having trouble factorising these rather large polynomials.

I have checked to see whether the following polynomials are irreducible and found there factorisation with maple.
Could someone please teach me how you would do these by hand.
x5+x+1=(x2+x+1)(x3-x2+1)

Another example:

x5+x4+1=(x2+x+1)(x3-x+1)

an explanation of either would be gratefuly appreciated, thank you.

I'm assuming that since your application is cryptography, the UFD of interest to you is the integers.
Note that x^5+x^4+1 is primitive in Z[x], the gcd of the coefficients is 1, even though it is reducible. So there is already a counterexample to your conjecture: if f(x) is not irreducible, then it is not primitive.
As far as factoring large polynomials, there is no simple formula unless the polynomial is quadratic in form. Quintics are not solvable by radicals in general and so very few indeed will be reducible over Z[x].
 

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