How do I use Green's theorem with holes?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the application of Green's theorem in the context of line integrals over curves that enclose a region with a hole. Participants explore the conditions under which the inner curve can be ignored and the implications of continuity of partial derivatives in the application of the theorem.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks clarification on using Green's theorem with a region bounded by two circles, questioning when the inner curve can be ignored.
  • Another participant provides a mathematical formulation of Green's theorem, suggesting that the area can be computed by integrating over the outer curve while subtracting the contribution from the inner curve.
  • A third participant expresses satisfaction with the explanation but questions the generality of ignoring the hole.
  • One participant argues that generally, the hole cannot be ignored due to the requirement for continuous partial derivatives, but offers a workaround by connecting the circles with line segments to circumvent the hole.
  • This participant elaborates on the mathematical reasoning behind the workaround, explaining how the integrals over the line segments cancel out and allow for the application of Green's theorem without considering the hole.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the general applicability of ignoring the hole. While some suggest that it can be done under specific conditions, others emphasize that it is generally not permissible without additional considerations.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the importance of continuity of partial derivatives in applying Green's theorem and the specific conditions under which the inner curve can be disregarded. There are unresolved aspects regarding the generality of the proposed workaround.

Vorde
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Hey all,

I was working through some problems in my spare time when I realized that I wasn't so satisfied with my understanding of how to use Greens theorem with holes. Can someone refresh my memory?

More specifically:

Lets say I want to take the line integral in some vector field of a curve C which is the union of the circle of radius 1 and the circle of radius 2 (meaning that the region of integration would be between r=1 and r=2).

How do I go about doing this again? The book says that sometimes I can just take the line integral around the outer curve and ignore the inner curve but doesn't say when/why this can be done.

Thanks.
 
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let
C1 be a circle of radius r1
C2 be a circle of radius r3
R the region bounded by C1 and C2

[tex]\int\int_R \left(\dfrac{\partial v}{\partial x}-\dfrac{\partial u}{\partial y}\right) \text{ dx dy}=\oint_{C_2} (u \text{ dx}+v \text{ dy})-\oint_{C_1} (u \text{ dx}+v \text{ dy})[/tex]

In particular we can find area by choosing for example
u=-y/2
v=x/2

[tex]A=\int\int_R \text{ dx dy}=\frac{1}{2}\left(\oint_{C_2} (-y \text{ dx}+x \text{ dy})-\oint_{C_1} (-y \text{ dx}+x \text{ dy})\right)=\pi(r_2^2-r_1^2)[/tex]
 
Ah! Okay, if only my damn book wrote that!

That makes things lovely.

Is there anything to the fact that sometimes you can ignore the hole though?
 
Generally you cannot simply ignore the hole.
One of the conditions in applying Green's theorem, is that the partial derivatives exist and are continuous in the entire region.

In this particular case there is a work around for the hole though.
You can connect the 2 circles with 2 line segments that (almost) coincide.
That way the relevant region is really the region between the 2 circles, so there can be a hole in the middle.
Since the partial derivatives have to be continuous, it does not matter that an infinitesimal area is missing (the part "between" the 2 line segments).

Suppose G is the curve containing the 2 circles and the 2 line segments, but not the center.

Then properly we have:
[tex]\int\int_R \left(\dfrac{\partial v}{\partial x}-\dfrac{\partial u}{\partial y}\right) \text{ dx dy}<br /> =\int\int_{R \text{ without the area between the line segments}} \left(\dfrac{\partial v}{\partial x}-\dfrac{\partial u}{\partial y}\right) \text{ dx dy}[/tex]
[tex]=\oint_{G} (u \text{ dx}+v \text{ dy})<br /> =\int_{C_1 \text{ reversed}} (u \text{ dx}+v \text{ dy}) + \int_{L_1} (u \text{ dx}+v \text{ dy})<br /> + \int_{C_2} (u \text{ dx}+v \text{ dy}) + \int_{L_2} (u \text{ dx}+v \text{ dy})[/tex]

Since the line segments L1 and L2 (almost) coincide and are opposite in direction, their respective integrals cancel.
And since the area where the circles are integrated is continuous, the open circle integrals are the same as the closed circle integrals.
So we get:
[tex]=\oint_{C_2} (u \text{ dx}+v \text{ dy})-\oint_{C_1} (u \text{ dx}+v \text{ dy})[/tex]

So yes, in this case you can ignore the hole.
Actually, the trick is to circumvent the hole, so there is no hole.
 

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