How Do Permanent Magnets Generate Energy in a Dynamo System?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mechanisms of energy generation in a dynamo system using permanent magnets, specifically addressing the principles of magnetic repulsion and energy conservation. Participants explore theoretical scenarios involving the use of magnets in a fan setup to generate electricity, while questioning the source of energy in such systems.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that the repulsion between permanent magnets does not consume energy, comparing it to the stability of an apple on a table due to electromagnetic forces.
  • The same participant proposes a scenario where negatively charged magnets on a fan could be rotated by the repulsion of a positively charged magnet to power a dynamo, questioning the source of electrical energy in this setup.
  • Another participant counters the feasibility of the proposed fan setup, asserting that magnetic force is conservative and that no net work would be done in a closed loop, thus preventing rotation.
  • A third participant clarifies the nature of magnetic attraction and repulsion, emphasizing that energy cannot be created or destroyed and that work is required to separate magnets that are stuck together.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the viability of using magnetic repulsion to generate energy in a dynamo system. There is no consensus on the proposed mechanisms or the implications of energy conservation in this context.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight assumptions regarding the nature of magnetic forces and energy conservation, but these assumptions remain unresolved within the discussion.

DudeWut
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First off, I am new here, so please don't tear me apart too hard if I miss or misinterpret something, I'll cotton on eventually :D

As I understand it, when a permanent magnet repels an oppositely charged object, such as another oppositely charged permanent magnet, no energy is technically being used for the magnets to repel each other, as it is the same principle as putting an apple on a table. The stiffness of the table is counteracting the force of gravity's force on the apple, and that is why the table doesn't just collapse. The stiffness is from the electromagnetic interactions of the atoms making up the table, so in the end it is the EM force counteracting the gravitational force. The magnets repelling each other is caused by electromagnetic interactions.

In this case, if I were to mount negatively charged permanent magnets onto the blades of a fan, and rotate them using the repulsion of a positively charged permanent magnet, then use said fan to power a dynamo that generated electricity, where would the electrical energy be coming from? Energy cannot be created (or destroyed for that matter) so where is it coming from?

Yes, the magnets may eventually lose their magnetism due to surrounding heat and such destabilizing them, but don't magnets still work at absolute zero? In a vacuum environment at absolute zero with no outside forces that can destabilize the magnets at that moment (the friction of the fan turning would generate heat, which would radiate to the magnet and perhaps destabilize it over time) the magnets would still repel, yes? At absolute zero, in a vacuum, there isn't much energy going around that the magnet can readily store and convert to repel it's opposite. As far as I am aware there is no energy change in a magnet anyway. Where is it coming from!?
 
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DudeWut said:
...if I were to mount negatively charged permanent magnets onto the blades of a fan, and rotate them using the repulsion of a positively charged permanent magnet

That doesn't work and videos on YouTube that appear to show the fan rotating are _all_ fake.

Magnetic force is a conservative force. Read the first paragraph of this..

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservative_force

If the fan were to rotate that would be the equivalent of a particle (magnet) returning to its starting position once per revolution (eg traveling around a closed loop) so no net work is done. No work means nothing to overcome friction so it cannot rotate.
 
PS Welcome to the forum.
 
DudeWut said:
In this case, if I were to mount negatively charged permanent magnets onto the blades of a fan, and rotate them using the repulsion of a positively charged permanent magnet
Note that:
A positively charged object ATTRACTS a negatively charged object.
A positively charged object REPELS a positively charged object.
A negatively charged object REPELS a negatively charged object.

similarly for magnetism:
North and south poles attract each other.
A north pole repels a north pole, and a south pole repels a south pole.

DudeWut said:
Energy cannot be created (or destroyed for that matter) so where is it coming from?
Ever try to pull two magnets stuck together apart?
You have to do work to do that.
The work can be recuperated by moving the magnets back together again.
 

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