How do programmers keep it all straight?

[tstarling]

You all might think it is a silly question, but I have the impression that one should be able to somehow know the entire string of commands, and so feel overwhelmed and defeated. I never really earned the basics, just eased into computer work while in the healthcare field and have been struggling ever since. There seems to be so much to learn then more added so I switch and get very confused about even where all my files are.
Don't really have another question. Thanks if anyone feels like commenting.

 

[Stephen Tashi]

You all might think it is a silly question, but I have the impression that one should be able to somehow know the entire string of commands,

Are you talking about writing computer programs in a programming language such as Java? - or are you talking about using an interactive environment such as a "shell" and typing commands in a terminal window?

 

[symbolipoint]

You all might think it is a silly question, but I have the impression that one should be able to somehow know the entire string of commands, and so feel overwhelmed and defeated. I never really earned the basics, just eased into computer work while in the healthcare field and have been struggling ever since. There seems to be so much to learn then more added so I switch and get very confused about even where all my files are.
Don't really have another question. Thanks if anyone feels like commenting.

Coursework! Long ago in the old days when computers were for "smart" people and the technology was far less advanced, students could learn Computer Programming, in whatever languages were available for this included in the course, at their local institution - whether community college, university, or high school. Students did not learn everything all at once. Students were taught to make table of variables or data, draw and label flow-diagrams, and translate the flow diagrams into computer language code.

 

[sysprog]

Long ago there was less to know. Fewer machine architectures, instructions, commands, languages, interfaces, etc.. Learn fundamentals well, be selective about which sets of specifics you learn in depth, and be ready to read the manuals and code. Set up safe test environments. Try things out.

 

[jedishrfu]

I often use the internet to find some code that matches what I'm trying to do and then extract out what I need. Some of my work involves coding in Java then switching to Python or Matlab and back so its useful to have programming examples and old code on hand to see how I did it in the past and if not the search the internet.

Also modern languages like Java demand that programmers use an IDE like Eclipse, Netbeans or Intellij. These tools can look up Java apis, prettify your code and help your refactor it as needed. Before the advent of these tools, it was quite cumbersome to even change a variable name everywhere correctly or refactor code. So if you're not using them you should look into it for a productivity boost.

Its quite true that over the years programming languages have grown in features and in library support api. When I learned Fortran IV, the manual was like 50-60 pgs and 30 or so statements and conventions with pretty much everything in it. Later other programmers added third party libraries that you could incorporate into your code the most notable being the IMSL numerical computing library.

As newer languages are developed they have to incorporate the popular library apis of older languages into their code base in order to compete for programmers. We see this in Java today which arguably has everything including the kitchen sink in its api set making learning it fully an improbable task. Programming book authors often don't know the whole language (that's often why they wrote the book) but instead research the api, write about it and go on to something else. Later they can use their own book to remember the more arcane parts. One famous author I knew did this and it amazed me how little he knew what he was writing about. He made a lot of money on it too. So I guess money trumps knowing.

Anyway there are a couple of cookbooks for Java, for Python and several other languages that are good for finding specific tasks like sorting data or date time display and numerous other things.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/144933704X/?tag=pfamazon01-20

 

[FactChecker]

I keep notes of commands and code facts that I need often. Long ago, I had to switch often between computers with different systems (VAX, IBM, PC Windows, Unix, Unix-like) with completely different commands and tools. I had a pocket-sized notepad for each one and I would carry the one that I needed that day. Even now that I stay on one system, I have a file of notes.

PS. Also, Google helps a lot.

 

[newjerseyrunner]

I use a ticket system called Jira, but any ticketing system should allow you to track your bugs and tasks. Sourceforge has a nice free once and I think trac has a free version.

You should place all of your code files into a version control repository. It not only allows you to track your changes, but check out the same piece of code and edit it no matter what computer you are on.

As for languages, no, we don't know all of the functions and their parameters. I tend not to remember things unless I know that I won't have access to them later. I can google any function that I need to know about, and most of the time, the IDE will show me a function's parameters if I start typing it.

 

[rbelli1]

the IDE will show me a function's parameters if I start typing it.

Also if you don't know exactly what you need you can type in various words that match the task at hand. If you are lucky there is already something in the API to use and it will pop up for you.

So much easier than a dumb text editor and a stack of books where search means flipping pages.

BoB

 

[Jamison Lahman]

You all might think it is a silly question, but I have the impression that one should be able to somehow know the entire string of commands, and so feel overwhelmed and defeated. I never really earned the basics, just eased into computer work while in the healthcare field and have been struggling ever since. There seems to be so much to learn then more added so I switch and get very confused about even where all my files are.
Don't really have another question. Thanks if anyone feels like commenting.

Learning the theory of coding is as important as having a big tool set. Start with the basics. Whenever you need a command you haven't learned, use the help/man function or a search engine online. DuckDuckGo returns stackoverflow whenever it suspects a programming inquiry which is most helpful. As with anything, practice and then practice more.

 

[jim hardy]

Remember this ?
https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/ballmer_peak.png

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

You all might think it is a silly question, but I have the impression that one should be able to somehow know the entire string of commands, and so feel overwhelmed and defeated. I never really earned the basics, just eased into computer work while in the healthcare field and have been struggling ever since.

Even the most experienced programmers have reference books they use. Take time to learn the basics :) Once you have the core programming concepts down you can apply them to any language and the rest is just learning syntax.

 

[rbelli1]

Once you have the core programming concepts down you can apply them to any language and the rest is just learning syntax.

This is very true when the core is stable. Learning a new programming language is more like learning a different dialect rather than a whole new language.

But from time to time there are additions to that core. If you switch to a language that has adopted these new concepts as requirements but your preferred language has not you have two learning curves to climb.

BoB

 

[symbolipoint]

Even the most experienced programmers have reference books they use. Take time to learn the basics :) Once you have the core programming concepts down you can apply them to any language and the rest is just learning syntax.

That's what so many programmers keep saying. Not true for me.

 

[symbolipoint]

To keep in line with what O.P. wants, how would a person today begin learning computer programming and data processing? Many decades ago, one would be able to enroll in a couple of beginning computer science courses and learn programming. This could have been done through a community college and at the time, no Window operating system yet. Students would learn BASIC, Cobol, or Fortran, or any/ or all of them. Things changed? Right? No?

 

[Jamison Lahman]

To keep in line with what O.P. wants, how would a person today begin learning computer programming and data processing? Many decades ago, one would be able to enroll in a couple of beginning computer science courses and learn programming. This could have been done through a community college and at the time, no Window operating system yet. Students would learn BASIC, Cobol, or Fortran, or any/ or all of them. Things changed? Right? No?

Step 1: Figure out what programming you want to do.
Step 2: Find out which is the most popular language for that task. It may not be the best language, but with more users, the better chance you have a query answered.
Step 3: Make a stackoverflow, github, and some type of online education site. I personally use edX. They have a lot of free programming courses. I am not a Microsoft guy, but the Microsoft courses have been very beneficial and easy to follow.
Step 3.5: If you want to do Data Analystics go ahead and make a kaggle account as well.
Step 3 Alternative: Buy a programming textbook or find a free one. https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Main_Page and https://openlibrary.org/ have plenty of programming texts. DuckDuckGo search will yield some books as well.
Step 4: Find/make friends that are also interested in learning programming. They will help keep you motivated and lots of troubleshooting time can be avoided by someone else intervening.
Step 5: Start writing programs. The beginning is the hardest. Don't get frustrated if your first programs have many errors. That is natural.
Step 6: Find something you want to program. Knowing how to program is no good if you have nothing to program!

Edit: Step 5.5: Learn to read man and help pages and documentation effectively! Teaching yourself is better than having to rely on forums.

 

[jtbell]

To keep in line with what O.P. wants, how would a person today begin learning computer programming and data processing? Many decades ago, one would be able to enroll in a couple of beginning computer science courses and learn programming. This could have been done through a community college and at the time, no Window operating system yet. Students would learn BASIC, Cobol, or Fortran, or any/ or all of them. Things changed? Right? No?

I did a Google search for "cs1 programming language survey". The most recent hit on the first page is a 2014 blog post from the Communications of the ACM:

Python is Now the Most Popular Introductory Teaching language at Top U.S. Universities

Java is a close second. Of course, this doesn't include more run-of-the-mill universities, colleges and community colleges.

As a single obsolete data point, I taught intro programming using C++ until about 2002. During the late '90s and early '00s, C++ was very common for this because it was the language used in high school AP computer science courses in the US. Then that course switched to Java in 2003. The professor who took over our intro programming course from me, accordingly switched to Java also. I don't know what the prof who teaches the course now uses.

 

[Jamison Lahman]

I did a Google search for "cs1 programming language survey". The most recent hit on the first page is a 2014 blog post from the Communications of the ACM:

Python is Now the Most Popular Introductory Teaching language at Top U.S. Universities

Java is a close second. Of course, this doesn't include more run-of-the-mill universities, colleges and community colleges.

It is definitely beneficial to see what university classes are being taught. It may be beneficial to check out Indeed/LinkedIn and find which languages employers are looking for as well.

 

[rbelli1]

Python is Now the Most Popular Introductory Teaching Language

If you start out with Python make sure you learn the basics and simple data structures first. Python with its rich set of libraries makes it easy to get into the flashy stuff too quickly. If your goal is to complete a task easily then that is actually a good thing. If you want to learn programming well then understanding the foundation first is the way to go.

Documentation is scant on some of the Python libraries so if you have trouble wading into some of the heavier weight ones don't be discouraged. It might not be your fault.

A feature of Python that makes it easier to learn than many others is the console. You can execute commands interactively and get instant feedback.

BoB

 

[Jamison Lahman]

Haven't used this personally, but if you you're interested in Python perhaps try: https://deals.tecmint.com/sales/pyt...al&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

 

[rcgldr]

... Many decades ago, one would be able to enroll in a couple of beginning computer science courses and learn programming. This could have been done through a community college and at the time, no Window operating system yet. Students would learn BASIC, Cobol, or Fortran, or any/ or all of them. Things changed? Right? No?

No Windows, but you did have mainframes and mini computers with multi-tasking operating systems. As for decades old programming languages: RPG (report generator), somewhat of a software replacement for plug board programming. PL/1 - advanced but not that popular. APL (A Programming Language), dating back to the early 1960's, a very high level language where the operators work with variables with any number of dimensions.

 

[Dr_Zinj]

Before you ever sign up for a programming class, take a course in Logic. That is an essential fundamental that programming is built upon (and for that matter, good written and verbal communications too.)

 

[Mark44]

Before you ever sign up for a programming class, take a course in Logic.

I agree that a small amount of logic would be helpful, but most of what would be taught in a quarter or semester of a logic course would have little or no bearing at all on programming.

Being able to categorize logical statements as modus ponens, modus tollens, etc. is not an essential skill for someone writing code, IMO, based on teaching many classes in programming over the past 30+ years. What is important is understanding simple logical expressions such as NOT p, p AND q, p OR q, and $p \Rightarrow q$ (or in more C-like form if(p) q; ). All of these can be learned by the use of a truth table, which wouldn't take an entire quarter or semester.

 

[Jamison Lahman]

I once heard the claim that philosophers are notoriously good at understanding the more complex ideas of programming. For example, how the value of a pointer is able to be in two places simultaneously. I only took an ethics class at university and I doubt the effect in programming is immediately noticeable, but a metaphysics course may be beneficial as well. At the least, it would probably be enjoyable. My hypothesis is that any skill learned in a metaphysics course would still be learned in a programming course and probably take more time to develop it.

 

[TheOldFart]

Just like "A writer writes", a programmer programs. You can't learn/know everything about any technology these days, almost all of them change so quickly that you can't keep up - and it isn't necessary. You learn what you need to solve the current problem, you move on.

As to anyone suggesting Python as a learning language... let's just say I'd eat a whole High-C can full of worms first...which may explain why the learning curve looks so steep. If I were staring into the abyss that Python is, I'd be overwhelmed too.

A good programming language does what good software does: Fail-fast. With Java or C# or other modern language, you make a mistake that can be caught early, it will be because it won't let you compile something that's obviously broken. Python doesn't just take the opposite approach, it actively hides common mistakes from you and you'll spend a great deal of your learning time learning how to troubleshoot Python code rather than learning how to program. Typo'ed a property name in Python? No problem, Python will automatically create a property with that incorrect name and it's up to you to figure it out at runtime. While customers are looking over your shoulder. And your boss. And an angry swarm of lawyers, 3 human rights organizations, 2 animal rights organizations, the entire military of 4 countries you've never heard of and that damn partridge in that damn pear tree... Okay maybe I'm _slightly_ exaggerating, but you will spend time troubleshooting stuff at run time and that is *not* the time to be detecting/fixing bugs.

Also if you're smart, you'll learn from the tools. I was a C guru for 14 years, you know what I used to do? Run every line of code I wrote through PC Lint. Not because I didn't know the language inside and out (even wrote my own C compiler once upon a time) but because I'd get in a hurry, I'd forgot to check something, I'd succumb to old habits... always some sort of problem or another that can be caught early by good tools which would teach me yet another lesson.

Likewise with Java. I use Eclipse with PMD and all the warnings turned up to 11, plus I run Infinitest on my projects. The instant I type in something stupid, I get a free lesson from the tools. The second or third or fourth time I get the same lesson presented, I finally remember why it's wrong and how it should have been done.

The other reason for using a modern language like Java and IDE like Eclipse is that you can attach to a running JVM. That' simply not possible in Python where "remote debugging" means something entirely different. If you want to learn what your software really does, you can run your application normally and then completely independently start up your IDE and attach to the JVM running your application.

That can also provide really important lessons that most beginners never think of and most old timers really should have learned: Predict where the bottlenecks in your application are, and then go try to prove your predictions correct. You won't, because your predictions are wrong. It's a fact of life, and the sooner you learn that lesson about software the sooner you begin to learn what things you _actually_ need to know about programming rather than what you think you need to know or what someone told you you need to know. If I had a nickel for every software engineer or hacker I've seen (including me, several decades ago) who wasted huge amounts of time learning obscure language tricks in order to "optimize" their code, I'd be rich.

Those are some things you learn along the way to learning what you set out to understand.

Basically, lit boils down to choose a problem you can solve with software, pick up a tool and try to solve the problem. Repeat until you understand why one tool worked and the other didn't, or why one solution took you so long and the other was so fast. The successful tools will be the ones you go back to and learn more in depth. Repeat until like a carpenter, you know what all the tools are for, even the odd shaped and obscure ones.

Personally if I were going to teach someone it'd be Java and Eclipse. They're free, well documented, supports most modern language features, and not only do your resulting apps run on any platform, your development environment runs on any platform (Eclipse is java based and runs on Linux, Windows and Mac) There are other good tools out there, I just happen to know those well. I keep telling myself I'll put some tutorials on youtube... maybe I should get off my butt...

 

[Mark44]

For example, how the value of a pointer is able to be in two places simultaneously.

No, that's not true.
In the context of C and C++, a pointer contains a memory address. So the value of a pointer is the address it contains. You can dereference a pointer, using the dereference operator (*) to access the memory pointed to. A pointer can't "be in two places at once." Maybe you're confusing the value of a pointer (an address) with the contents of the memory the pointer points to.

I only took an ethics class at university and I doubt the effect in programming is immediately noticeable, but a metaphysics course may be beneficial as well. At the least, it would probably be enjoyable. My hypothesis is that any skill learned in a metaphysics course would still be learned in a programming course and probably take more time to develop it.

IMO, a course in metaphysics would be of no use whatsoever in learning to program. I worked for 15 years among many professional programmers. To the best of my knowledge, none of them had ever taken a metaphysics class. Certainly none of them ever touted the advantages of such a course in learning to program.

 

[Julian Baker]

None of us know everything. Keep learning and try to remember what you learned today before you go to sleep.
We all use GOD programming when we reach the limit of our own knowledge: Google Oriented Development. And if you are in a team talk to your peers. Sometimes just by talking about something the solution suddenly seems obvious.

 

[.Scott]

For example, how the value of a pointer is able to be in two places simultaneously.

No, that's not true.
In the context of C and C++, a pointer contains a memory address. So the value of a pointer is the address it contains. You can dereference a pointer, using the dereference operator (*) to access the memory pointed to. A pointer can't "be in two places at once." Maybe you're confusing the value of a pointer (an address) with the contents of the memory the pointer points to.

This is semantics. The "value of a pointer" can refer to the address that is being pointed to. In that sense, here is an example of the value of a pointer being in two places at once:

{
  int n=123;
  volatile int *pPlaceA, *pPlaceB;
  pPlaceA = pPlaceB = &n;
}

Addressing the OP, when it comes to learning how to program, nothing beats programming. Everyone has there own ways of learning, but here are my suggestions:
1) Have a mentor - an experienced programmer.
2) Start with this exercise:
- a) Set up your development environment - this may take some research.
- b) Find an already-written "Hello World" program. Compile it, execute it, break it, fix it.
- c) Read enough about the language syntax to fully understand the "Hello World" program. Change it, break it, fix it.
- d) Play with whatever debugging methods are available to you: breakpoints, watch points, lines of "print" statements, etc.
3) Find more sample code. It each case:
- a) Work with the reference material to understand exactly what the program is doing.
- b) Change it, break it, fix it. Other than input from your mentor, this is the only evidence that you have that you understand what the code is really doing and how it is doing it.
4) Take on a very small project. This is where the mentor will really be needed. He/she can not only tell you why your program won't compile or operate as intended, they can also tell you what methods you can use to make things easier for yourself.
5) If you are having trouble with things like pointers or logic, ask you mentor and play with them. Find specific examples, break them and fix them.
6) Once you have some achievement, go to the reference manual and read through it - not for the purpose of memorizing it, but so that you know what resources are available to you. Should you need something later, the reference material will still be there. In a lot of cases, you won't even understand what the reference material is saying. That's fine, later the material you have read may give you ideas and with a case in point, you may find the reference material a lot less cryptic.

 

[Mark44]

For example, how the value of a pointer is able to be in two places simultaneously.

No, that's not true.
In the context of C and C++, a pointer contains a memory address. So the value of a pointer is the address it contains. You can dereference a pointer, using the dereference operator (*) to access the memory pointed to. A pointer can't "be in two places at once." Maybe you're confusing the value of a pointer (an address) with the contents of the memory the pointer points to.

This is semantics. The "value of a pointer" can refer to the address that is being pointed to. In that sense, here is an example of the value of a pointer being in two places at once:

{
  int n=123;
  volatile int *ptrA, *ptrB;
  ptrA = ptrB = &n;
}

I disagree that it is just a semantic difference. The value of a pointer is the address stored in the pointer variable, something that can be verified by the use of a debugger or by an output statement.

In your example, in which I changed the names of the pointer variables slightly, each pointer variable contains the same address; namely, the address of n. A pointer variable, like all other scalar variables, can contain only a sngle number.

If we assume that n is stored in four bytes starting at location 1000 (hypothetical), then the assignment in the third line stores this address in both pointer variables. So the value of ptrA and ptrB would be 1000, and the value of *ptrA and *ptrB would 123, the number stored at address 1000. The difference between ptrA and *ptrA is hardly due to just semantics.

Is there some reason you made both pointer variables volatile?

 

[.Scott]

Is there some reason you made both pointer variables volatile?

Just to make sure that the pointer variables were really assigned to memory and that the address of n was really stored. Otherwise, the entire code block would be subject to being optimized away.

I assumed there was an issue of semantics when you posted:

A pointer can't "be in two places at once."

You seemed to be contradicting the statement that the "value of the pointer" could be in two places at once. So it sounded like semantics to me.

However, in the example you provided, I would take the "value of the pointer" to be (int *)1000. Certainly (int *)1000 can be stored in more than one place, and retained in those places simultaneously. And you also seem to take the "value of the pointer" to be (int *)1000.

So, I am now confused by exactly what you meant when you said "No, that is not true" in response to Jamison's "For example, how the value of a pointer is able to be in two places simultaneously.".

You seem to agree that the value can be stored in more than place, as Jamison asserted.

 

[Mark44]

Here's what Jamison said:

For example, how the value of a pointer is able to be in two places simultaneously.

You seemed to be contradicting the statement that the "value of the pointer" could be in two places at once. So it sounded like semantics to me.

My comment, "A pointer can't "be in two places at once", was an attempt to understand and interpret what Jamison said, which I believe was not actually what he meant. Certainly multiple variables can all hold the same value, and the same is true for pointer variables. Given that Jamison was looking at things from the contexts of ethics, philosophy, and metaphysics, but apparently not in the context of programming, I interpreted what he said to mean that somehow we could store two different things in the same (scalar) variable. In summary, my response was germane to what I thought he meant, not the literal words he wrote.