How do we know that wave f. is the eigenfunction of an operator H?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concepts of eigenfunctions and eigenvalues in the context of quantum mechanics, specifically related to the operator ##\hat{H}##. Participants explore the definitions and implications of these terms, as well as the relationships between operators and functions in quantum mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks clarification on how to understand the statement that ##\psi## is an eigenfunction of the operator ##\hat{H}## with eigenvalue ##W##.
  • Another participant asserts that the definition of eigenfunctions and eigenvalues is encapsulated in the equation ##\hat{H} \psi = E \psi##.
  • Some participants discuss the implications of operators acting on functions, questioning whether ##\hat{a} \psi## can be considered an eigenfunction of ##\hat{H}## or if it should be viewed as an eigenfunction of the combined operator ##\hat{H}\hat{a}##.
  • There is a suggestion that the notation used in the equations could be misleading, and that clarity could be improved by explicitly including the function in the equations.
  • Participants express uncertainty about the nature of eigenfunctions when operators are involved, with one asking if an eigenfunction can be a combination of an operator and a function.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the definitions and implications of eigenfunctions and eigenvalues, with multiple competing views and interpretations presented throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved questions regarding the clarity of notation and the definitions of eigenfunctions in relation to operators, as well as the implications of combining operators with functions.

71GA
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I am kind of new to this eigenvalue, eigenfunction and operator things, but i have come across this quote many times:
##\psi## is the eigenfunction of an operator ##\hat{H}## with eigenvalue ##W##.

First i need some explanation on how do we know this? All i know about operator ##\hat{H}## so far is this equation where ##\langle W \rangle## is an energy expected value:

\begin{align}
\langle W \rangle &= \int \limits_{-\infty}^{\infty} \overline{\Psi}\, \left(- \frac{\hbar^2}{2m} \frac{d^2}{d \, x^2} + W_p\right) \Psi \, d x
\end{align}

From which it follows that ##\hat{H} = - \frac{\hbar^2}{2m} \frac{d^2}{d \, x^2} + W_p##.

Aditional question:

I know how to derive relation ##\hat{H}\hat{a} = (W - \hbar \omega)\hat{a} \psi## for which they state that:

##\hat{a} \psi## is an eigenfunction of operator ##\hat{H}## with eigenvalue ##(W-\hbar \omega)##.

I also know how to derive relation ##\hat{H}\hat{a}^\dagger = (W + \hbar \omega)\hat{a}^\dagger \psi## for which they state that:

##\hat{a}^\dagger \psi## is an eigenfunction of operator ##\hat{H}## with eigenvalue ##(W+\hbar \omega)##.

How do we know this?
 
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That's pretty much the definition of "eigenfunction" and "eigenvalue", isn't it?
 
HallsofIvy said:
That's pretty much the definition of "eigenfunction" and "eigenvalue", isn't it?

What exactly here is the definition? Which equation?
 
71GA said:
What exactly here is the definition? Which equation?
Any equation of the form
##\hat{H} \psi = E \psi##
is an eigen-equation

The functions ##\psi_n## which satisfy this equation are called the eigenfunctions of the operator ##\hat{H}##, with corresponding eigenvalues ##E_n##.

Put simply, when an operator ##\hat{H}## acts upon one of its eigenfunctions, it returns the same eigenfunction multiplied by a number, which we call the eigenvalue.
 
Fightfish said:
Any equation of the form
##\hat{H} \psi = E \psi##
is an eigen-equation

The functions ##\psi_n## which satisfy this equation are called the eigenfunctions of the operator ##\hat{H}##, with corresponding eigenvalues ##E_n##.

Put simply, when an operator ##\hat{H}## acts upon one of its eigenfunctions, it returns the same eigenfunction multiplied by a number, which we call the eigenvalue.

1st:
In this equation ##\hat{H}\hat{a} = (W - \hbar \omega)\hat{a} \psi## is it possible that ##\hat{a} \psi## is an eigenfunction... i mean ##\hat{a}## is an operator...

2nd:
And is it possible that my quotings were wrong i will write the wrong one and the one that i think is better:

WRONG:
##\hat{a}\psi## is an eigenfunction of operator ##\hat{H}## with eigenvalue ##(W−\hbar \omega)##.

RIGHT:
##\hat{a}\psi## is an eigenfunction of operators ##\hat{H}\hat{a}## with eigenvalue ##(W−\hbar \omega)##.
 
71GA said:
1st:
In this equation ##\hat{H}\hat{a} = (W - \hbar \omega)\hat{a} \psi## is it possible that ##\hat{a} \psi## is an eigenfunction... i mean ##\hat{a}## is an operator...

2nd:
And is it possible that my quotings were wrong i will write the wrong one and the one that i think is better:

WRONG:
##\hat{a}\psi## is an eigenfunction of operator ##\hat{H}## with eigenvalue ##(W−\hbar \omega)##.

RIGHT:
##\hat{a}\psi## is an eigenfunction of operators ##\hat{H}\hat{a}## with eigenvalue ##(W−\hbar \omega)##.

What's right is wrong and what's wrong is right :smile:
An operator maps one function into another, so if ##\hat{a}## is an operator and ##\psi## is a function, then ##\hat{a}\psi## is itself a function.

And I think that you dropped a ##\psi## from the equation you started with. I would have expected ##\hat{H}\hat{a}\psi = (W - \hbar \omega)\hat{a} \psi##, and written that way it is clear that the function ##\hat{a}\psi## is an eigenfunction of ##\hat{H}## with eigenvalue ##(W−\hbar \omega)##... Or at least adding a few parentheses will make it clear:

[tex]\hat{H}(\hat{a}\psi) = (W - \hbar \omega)(\hat{a} \psi)[/tex]
 
Nugatory said:
What's right is wrong and what's wrong is right :smile:
An operator maps one function into another, so if ##\hat{a}## is an operator and ##\psi## is a function, then ##\hat{a}\psi## is itself a function.

And I think that you dropped a ##\psi## from the equation you started with. I would have expected ##\hat{H}\hat{a}\psi = (W - \hbar \omega)\hat{a} \psi##, and written that way it is clear that the function ##\hat{a}\psi## is an eigenfunction of ##\hat{H}## with eigenvalue ##(W−\hbar \omega)##... Or at least adding a few parentheses will make it clear:

[tex]\hat{H}(\hat{a}\psi) = (W - \hbar \omega)(\hat{a} \psi)[/tex]

Ok so the eigenfunction can be a combination of an operator $\hat{a}$ and a function $\psi$?
 
71GA said:
Ok so the eigenfunction can be a combination of an operator $\hat{a}$ and a function $\psi$?
Why not? An operator acting on a function gives you another function.
 
Thanks.
 

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