How Do You Calculate Average Acceleration in Relativistic Motion?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion focuses on calculating average acceleration in relativistic motion, particularly when the acceleration is not constant and the object is moving at significant fractions of the speed of light. Participants explore various scenarios involving known forces, masses, starting velocities, and other parameters.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes the equation for force in relativistic motion involves a changing gamma factor, complicating average acceleration calculations.
  • Another suggests that if proper acceleration is constant, it simplifies analysis, but this may not align with the original question regarding changing acceleration.
  • A participant proposes using integration to find average acceleration, but questions the necessity of this approach.
  • Multiple participants indicate the need for a smaller variable set, specifying known quantities such as force, mass, starting velocity, and either end velocity, elapsed time, or distance covered.
  • One participant references Landau's course as a potential resource for understanding the concepts of acceleration and force in this context.
  • Another suggests that numerical methods may be required for certain cases, while emphasizing the importance of consistent measurement frames.
  • Further contributions discuss rearranging equations and integrating to solve for velocity and time, indicating a potential simplification of the problem.
  • One participant expresses that the problem can be simplified significantly, providing a relation that could help in solving the cases presented.
  • A later reply acknowledges the usefulness of the previous contributions and indicates a need for further exploration after rest.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying approaches to the problem, with no consensus on a single method or solution. Some propose integration and numerical methods, while others suggest simpler rearrangements of equations. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach to calculate average acceleration in the specified scenarios.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity introduced by the changing gamma factor in relativistic motion, and the need for careful consideration of the measurement frame. There are also indications that some mathematical steps may require further clarification or exploration.

pixelpuffin
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I know that there is an equation for an accelerating object that is already a notable fraction of the speed of light (force = gamma^3 * mass * acceleration), but gamma is changing while the object accelerates
so what i want to know is how to calculate the average acceleration of an object when you already know the force acting on it, the mass of the object, and the starting velocity of the object
 
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The easiest case to analyse is the case where the proper acceleration (as measured by an accelerometer attached to the accelerating object) is constant. Is that what you mean?
 
not quite I'm afraid
I want a calculation for how much it has accelerated with a changing acceleration, because the acceleration is changing as it accelerates
in an example where force and mass are constant (lets say 100,000 Newtons and 100 kilograms) at any given point it can be calculated as
100,000 = 100 * acceleration * gamma^3
100,000 / 100 = acceleration * gamma^3
1,000 = acceleration * gamma^3
which is useful when gamma is almost exactly the same the entire time, but when gamma changes a notable amount the calculation requires an average for gamma
which is what I failed to find on the internet
 
In general, you would have to perform an integration [tex]v = v_0 + \int_0^{\Delta t} a \, dt = v_0 + \int (\frac{f}{\gamma^3m})dt[/tex] then you can calculate the average acceleration by [itex]a=\frac{v-v_0}{\Delta t},[/itex] but why would you do that?

Also note that the formula [tex]f=\gamma^3ma[/tex] is only valid if the force is parallel to the velocity (linear motion).
 
that would work for what I specified, but I forgot to mention I need to solve the equation with a smaller variable set
in the cases I need to solve I know the force the mass the starting velocity and the end velocity, the force the mass the starting velocity and the amount of time that passes, and the force the mass the starting velocity and the distance covered
 
An answer on the pixelpuffin's question depends on what we mean writing "acceleration" and "force". IMHO the best way to solve a problem is to read Landau's course. Vol.2 (see for example http://music.whu.edu.cn/Resources/eBooks/Physics/Field Theory/landau.pdf). "acceleration" see p.23, "force" see p.29. Anyone can find solution of a problem dealt with uniformely accelerated motion (p.24)
 
pixelpuffin said:
that would work for what I specified, but I forgot to mention I need to solve the equation with a smaller variable set
in the cases I need to solve I know the force the mass the starting velocity and the end velocity, the force the mass the starting velocity and the amount of time that passes, and the force the mass the starting velocity and the distance covered

Each of these 3 cases is readily solved from the formulas dauto posted. You may need numerical methods for some of the cases, but they are still the right equations (assuming all measurements are made in one inertial coordinate system, and force is constant as measured by an observer stationary in said frame - as opposed to as measured by the accelerating object (that's the case Yuiop was referring to).

For example, if you take force, mass, starting velocity and end velocity as given, you are solving the integral equation for delta t. If you take the force, mass, starting velocity, and elapsed time as given, you just directly integrate for the ending velocity. Your third case is slightly more interesting - you need a double integral by dt to get distance, which you treat as given. Then you have to solve this for delta t.

[edit: actually, it is all easier than this: You want to re-arrange to f/m = gamma^3 a = gamma^3 v'.
Then, integrating by dt, you get (f/m)t = integral ( gamma^3 )dv
The integral can be solved in closed form, giving you the relation of v and t. From there, all you cases are solvable, with more integration in one case.]
 
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Actually, this can be ridiculously simple. The m [itex]\gamma[/itex]^3v comes from:

f = dp/dt = m (d/dt)([itex]\gamma[/itex]v). Then,

f/m = (d/dt)(([itex]\gamma[/itex]v), so

ft/m = [itex]\gamma[/itex]v + k

This simply, you have v as f (t), and can solve all your cases.

Going a little further, to get v=v0 at t=0, [itex]\gamma[/itex]0 having the obvious meaning, then define:

T= ft/m + [itex]\gamma[/itex]0 v0

then v = c /√ (1 + c^2 / T^2)

and you can see that v -> c as t -> ∞.
 
Last edited:
that seems quite helpful
I'll look at this closer once i get some sleep
(screw late night algebra)
 

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