How Do You Calculate the Dimension of F(u,v) Over F(u)?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the calculation of the dimension of the field extension F(u,v) over F(u), particularly in the context of irreducible polynomials and extension fields in algebra. Participants explore the implications of adding a new root v to the existing field F(u) and how this affects the dimension and structure of the resulting field.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes the construction of the field F(u) from an irreducible polynomial p(x) and discusses the dimension of F[u] over F being equal to the degree of p(x).
  • Another participant suggests that to find the dimension of F(u,v) over F(u), one must factor the polynomial p(x) over F(u) and identify the irreducible polynomial for v over F(u), with its degree determining the dimension of the extension.
  • A later reply provides an example using the polynomial p(x) = x^3 - 2, detailing the construction of the extension Q(√[3]{2}) and the subsequent factoring of p(x) to find a new irreducible polynomial for v.
  • Questions arise regarding whether the final extension field contains all the roots of p(x) and what the basis of this extension is, as well as the meaning of "certain bounded degrees" in the context of general elements in F(u,v).

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of adding a new root v and the resulting dimension of the extension F(u,v) over F(u). There is no consensus on the specific details of the basis for the extension or the completeness of the roots in the final field.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the need to consider the irreducibility of polynomials over different fields and the implications for dimension calculations, but do not resolve the uncertainties regarding the completeness of roots or the nature of the basis in the final extension.

Wingeer
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Hello,
I have a quick question about extension fields.
We know that if E is an extension field of F and if we have got an irreducible polynomial p(x) in F[x] with a root u in E, then we can construct F(u) which is the smallest subfield of E containing F and u. This by defining a homomorphism:

\Phi : F[x] \to E
by
\Phi (f(x)) = f(u).

Then, since the ideal generated by p(x) in F[x] is maximal, and
Ker \Phi = p(x)
we have, using the fundamental theorem of homomorphisms, that:
F[x] / (p(x))
is isomorphic to
F<u> = \{a_0 + a_0u + \cdots + a_mu^m | a_0 + a_0x + \cdots + a_mx^m \in F[x] \}</u>
Which in fact is equal to F(u), the smallest subfield of E containing F and u.

The dimension of F over F is given by:
[F<u>:F]=deg(p(x))</u>
Also in drawing that conclusion we need the fact that the set \{1,u,u^2, \cdots, u^{n-1}\} is a basis for F.

This is all fine, but what stumped me is the concept of expanding over this field again by adding, say another root v in E of p(x) (assuming such v exists, of course). We also assume that v is not algebraic in F(u), so that we need another extension to cover the roots of p(x).
I reckon that F(u,v) is an alternative, but I would like to describe a general element in this field, like one could for an element in F(u). Is there also a nice way to find the dimension of F(u,v) over F(u)? Is it simply 2?

I hope that I made myself clear, and if there are any uncertainties be kind to ask.
Thanks in advance.
 
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you have to factor the polynomial p(x) for u that was formerly irreducible over F, and see what its irreducible factors are now over F(u). One of them will be the irreducible polynomial for v over F(u). Its degree will be the dimension of the extension F(u,v) over F(u).

The general element of F(u,v) is of course a polynomial in u and v with coefficients in F. (with certain bounded degrees in u and in v.)
 
mathwonk said:
you have to factor the polynomial p(x) for u that was formerly irreducible over F, and see what its irreducible factors are now over F(u). One of them will be the irreducible polynomial for v over F(u). Its degree will be the dimension of the extension F(u,v) over F(u).

The general element of F(u,v) is of course a polynomial in u and v with coefficients in F. (with certain bounded degrees in u and in v.)

Could you kindly elaborate a bit on the bold text in the quote? Or check if I got it right. Say, for instance that we are working with
p(x)=x^3-2 \in Q[x]
the roots of this polynomial are:
x=\sqrt[3]{2},\omega \sqrt[3]{2},\omega^2 \sqrt[3]{2}
Where,
\omega = e^{\frac{2\pi i}{3}}
First let us construct an extension: Q(\sqrt[3]{2}) By the theory in the opening post we can conclude that
[Q(\sqrt[3]{2}):Q]=deg(x^3-2)=3
And that
Q(\sqrt[3]{2})=\{ a_0 + a_1 \sqrt[3]{2} + a_2 \sqrt[3]{2}^2 | a_0 + a_1x + a_2x^2 \in Q[x] \}
We now consider p(x) over the new extension field. By factoring out the root we get that:
p(x)=x^3-2 = (x-\sqrt[3]{2})(x^2 +\sqrt[3]{2}x + \sqrt[3]{4})
So the new irreducible polynomial is now:
p_1(x) = (x^2 +\sqrt[3]{2}x + \sqrt[3]{4}
We see that
v=\omega \sqrt[3]{2}
is a root for this polynomial. We therefore construct a new extension (and here we do not actually need "whole" v, as the cube root of 2 is already in our extension field?), namely:
Q(\sqrt[3]{2}, \omega)
Where:
[Q(\sqrt[3]{2}, \omega):Q(\sqrt[3]{2})]=deg(p_1(x))=2

Does this final extension field contain all the roots of p(x)? What is the basis of this extension?
Also, what did you mean with the comment about "certain bounded degrees"?

Thank You so much for the help!
 
read section 19 of these notes for the example of the splitting field of X^4-2 over Q.

http://www.math.uga.edu/%7Eroy/843-2.pdf
 
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