How Do You Derive the Lagrangian for Three Coupled Pendulums?

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves deriving the Lagrangian for a system of three coupled pendulums connected by springs, with all lengths and masses being equal. The original poster seeks to express the Lagrangian in terms of "natural units."

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to formulate the kinetic and potential energy expressions for the system and expresses concern about the number of normal modes obtained compared to the degrees of freedom. Participants discuss the eigenvalues of the resulting matrix and the implications of using natural units.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the original poster's concerns regarding the normal modes and the formulation of the Lagrangian. Some guidance is offered regarding the expected number of normal modes based on the eigenvalues of the matrix. There is an exploration of the concept of natural units and its implications for the problem.

Contextual Notes

There is mention of potential confusion regarding the concept of natural units and how it relates to solving the eigenvalue problem. The original poster expresses uncertainty about the correctness of their expressions for kinetic and potential energy.

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Homework Statement



Three pendulums hand side-by-side and have there masses connected horizontally via springs. All lengths and masses are equal. Find the Lagrangian and put it in terms of "natural units".

The Attempt at a Solution



T = 1/2 m l^2 (\dot{\theta_1}^2 + \dot{\theta_2}^2 + \dot{\theta_3}^2)

V = 1/2 k (l \theta_1 - l \theta_2)^2 + 1/2 k (l \theta_2 - l \theta_3)^2

Using natural units q_i = \sqrt{k} x_i and q' = dq/d\tau where \tau=\omega t:

L = 1/2(q^{'2}_{1} + q^{'2}_{2} + q^{'2}_{3}) - 1/2(q^2_1 + q^2_2 + q^2_3) + (q_1 q_2 + q_2 q_3 - 1/2 q^2_2)

When I try to find the normal modes I only get 3, but since there are three degrees of freedom shouldn't there be three normal modes? I think my T or V expressions must be wrong somewhere. If they are not I can write out the matrices...

When there is no (1,3) or (3,1) entry in either the T or V matrix, i.e. this case (using natural units), will there ever be 3 modes when solving characteristic eq. for that matrix?
 
Last edited:
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CNX said:
When I try to find the normal modes I only get 3, but since there are three degrees of freedom shouldn't there be three normal modes?

Do you mean you only found one normal mode with \omega = 3?

Your 3x3 matrix should have 3 eigenvalues and hence 3 normal modes, right?
 
No I mean I get \omega^2_1 = 0,~\omega^2_2 = 3/m l^2, ~\omega^2_3 = 1/ m l^2

From

-.375 m l^2 \omega+.500 m^2 l^4 \omega^2-.125 m^3 l^6 \omega^3=0

I don't really get the idea of the natural units. Is it just convenience, i.e. solve the eigenvalue problem and then convert back?
 
Last edited:
To be honest I've already finished this topic but I've not heard of "natural units", but if you're solving for normal modes then what you've done looks correct...you have already found the 3 normal frequencies.
 
Thanks
 

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