How do you know if there isn't a solution to a calculus optimization problem?

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    Calculus Optimization
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the conditions under which a calculus optimization problem may have no solution. Participants explore examples and theoretical explanations related to optimization in calculus, particularly focusing on functions without critical points or boundaries.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how it is possible to have no solution to an optimization problem, seeking clarification and examples.
  • Another participant provides examples of functions, such as f(x) = x and f(x) = x^3, noting that they lack critical points and boundaries, leading to no absolute maximum or minimum.
  • A third example discusses the function f(x) = 1/x on the interval -1 ≤ x ≤ 1, highlighting the undefined nature at x = 0 due to a vertical asymptote, which results in no maximum or minimum value.
  • One participant mentions a classroom example involving a cylinder with a fixed area, where the teacher concluded there was no solution, prompting a request for further explanation.
  • Another participant explains that the volume function is proportional to r², with its derivative only being zero at r = 0, indicating no maximum volume exists.
  • Further clarification is sought by a participant who expresses confusion over the explanation regarding the volume function and critical points.
  • A later reply asserts that the volume function is monotonic and grows unbounded, suggesting that the dimensions can be adjusted indefinitely while still satisfying the area constraint.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding regarding the conditions that lead to no solutions in optimization problems. There is no consensus on the explanations provided, and some participants seek further clarification on the concepts discussed.

Contextual Notes

Some participants' examples depend on the absence of boundaries or critical points, and the discussion includes unresolved mathematical steps related to the volume of the cylinder and its implications for optimization.

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My teacher was saying that it is possible to have no solution to an optimization problem, and I was curious about how this could be possible. Could someone please explain and possibly give an example?
 
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Here are two examples:

Find maximum value of function [itex]f(x) = x[/itex]

Note that nowhere is the derivative zero or undefined (no critical points). Note also that no boundary is given. At best you can say the maximum occurs in the limit as [itex]x \to \infty[/itex].

Find maximum value of function [itex]f(x)=x^3[/itex]

Here we have a critical point at [itex]x = 0[/itex] but note it is an inflection point. Testing points to each side will tell you it is not a local min or max. Again given no boundaries you get no absolute maximum or minimum when you check the behavior as [itex]x \to \pm \infty[/itex]

Third example: Find the absolute maxima and minima of [itex]f(x) = 1/x[/itex] on the interval [itex]-1 \le x \le 1[/itex]. Again you see a critical point at x=0 where the derivative is undefined. However the function is also undefined there and you see that it has a vertical asymptote there. Since the asymptote is two sided going to [itex]\infty[/itex] on one side and [itex]-\infty[/itex] on the other then there is no maximum or minimum value.
 
Well my teachr gave us the example:
A Piece of paper with an area of 100in is to be rolled into an open cylinder with a maximum volume. What dimensions should the paper have to accomplish this. When we solved it in class he said there was no solution but I don't understand why. Could you explain?
 
In general, this would be because the function that describes the volume of the cylinder is proportional to r2. The derivative of this function, which tells you where the maximum would be, is proportional to r. The derivative function will only be zero when r = 0, the trivial case. Since there is no other example where the derivative function is zero, i.e. no other critical points, there cannot be a maximum to the volume.
 
Steely Dan said:
In general, this would be because the function that describes the volume of the cylinder is proportional to r2. The derivative of this function, which tells you where the maximum would be, is proportional to r. The derivative function will only be zero when r = 0, the trivial case. Since there is no other example where the derivative function is zero, i.e. no other critical points, there cannot be a maximum to the volume.

I'm sorry but I'm not really understanding what are you are saying here. Could you possibly rephrase it or simplify it?
 
The function representing the volume is monotonic, it doesn't have any critical points.
V=50r in this case or V=b*50/2pi where b is one of the sides of the paper. It only means that the volume will grow unbounded because you can increase b as much as you want, (the condition for the other side a=100/b can still be satisfied.)
 

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