How do you nondimensionalize an equation with substituted variables?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the process of nondimensionalizing an equation after substituting variables in a differential equation context. Participants explore the implications of their substitutions and the resulting forms of the equations, focusing on the mathematical steps involved in the transformation.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses uncertainty about the next steps after substituting variables into the equation.
  • Another participant presents a derived equation using the chain rule and asks for confirmation on whether others arrive at the same result.
  • There is a discussion about the values of parameters alpha and beta, with one participant suggesting they could be set to 1 without loss of generality.
  • A participant requests clarification on the application of the chain rule in their derivation process.
  • Detailed steps are provided for transforming the second derivative with respect to time and the substitutions for the variables involved.
  • Participants discuss how to eliminate fractions in the final equation to achieve a desired form.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

There is no clear consensus on the values of alpha and beta or the final form of the nondimensionalized equation. Multiple viewpoints and methods are presented, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach to eliminate fractions.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the assumptions related to the parameters alpha and beta, and there are unresolved steps in the mathematical transformations discussed.

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For this question I have substituted feta and t into the equation, but am unsure what to do after that. Please can anyone point me in the right direction. Thanks :)
 
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After doing the chain rule and substituting in, I get
$$\frac{1}{\beta^2} \, \frac{d^2 \tilde{\theta}_i}{d\tilde{t}^2}=\frac{k}{I}\left( \tilde{\theta}_{i-1}-2\tilde{\theta}_i+\tilde{\theta}_{i+1} \right).$$
Is that what you get?
 
Hi, yes but still am unsure what alpha and beta can be. As k=I=1. so can alpha and beta just =1 also without loss of generality.
 
Ackbach said:
After doing the chain rule and substituting in, I get
$$\frac{1}{\beta^2} \, \frac{d^2 \tilde{\theta}_i}{d\tilde{t}^2}=\frac{k}{I}\left( \tilde{\theta}_{i-1}-2\tilde{\theta}_i+\tilde{\theta}_{i+1} \right).$$
Is that what you get?

Actually, I'm not getting that .. please can you explain to me how you've used the chain rule here :)
 
jessicamorgan said:
Actually, I'm not getting that .. please can you explain to me how you've used the chain rule here :)

Sure! So you've got $\theta_i = \alpha \tilde{\theta}_i$ and $t=\beta \tilde{t}$. In order to substitute into the original DE, we need to assemble the ingredients listed. That is, we need $\dfrac{d^2\theta_i}{dt^2}, \; \theta_{i-1},\; \theta_i,\;$ and $\theta_{i+1}$. The $\theta_j$'s are all fairly straight-forward according to $\theta_i = \alpha \tilde{\theta}_i$ formula:
\begin{align*}
\theta_i&=\alpha\tilde{\theta}_i \\
\theta_{i-1}&=\alpha\tilde{\theta}_{i-1} \\
\theta_{i+1}&=\alpha\tilde{\theta}_{i+1}.
\end{align*}
Now then, we need the second derivative. Whenever I need to do a second derivative change-of-variables like this, I always do it one step at a time - I make fewer mistakes that way. Note that, since $\beta>0$, we have that $\tilde{t}=\dfrac{t}{\beta}$. So get the first derivative first:
$$\frac{d\theta_i}{dt}=\frac{d\theta_i}{d\tilde{t}} \, \frac{d\tilde{t}}{dt}=\frac{d\theta_i}{d\tilde{t}} \, \frac{1}{\beta}.$$
To get the second derivative, we differentiate this equation on both sides with respect to $t$, and get:
$$\frac{d^2\theta_i}{dt^2}=\frac{d}{dt} \, \frac{d\theta_i}{dt}=\frac{d}{dt} \left[ \frac{d\theta_i}{d\tilde{t}} \, \frac{1}{\beta} \right] =\frac{1}{\beta} \left[ \frac{d}{d\tilde{t}} \, \frac{d\theta_i}{d\tilde{t}} \right] \frac{d\tilde{t}}{dt}
=\frac{1}{\beta^2} \, \frac{d^2\theta_i}{d\tilde{t}^2}.$$
So that handles the $t$ to $\tilde{t}$ conversion. To get the $\theta_i$ to $\tilde{\theta}_i$ conversion is very similar, actually:
$$\frac{d\tilde{\theta}_i}{d\tilde{t}}=\frac{d\tilde{\theta}_i}{d\theta_i} \, \frac{d\theta_i}{d\tilde{t}}=\frac{1}{\alpha}\, \frac{d\theta_i}{d\tilde{t}}.$$
Doing the next derivative will get you (you can fill in the details)
$$\frac{d^2\tilde{\theta}_i}{d\tilde{t}^2}=\frac{1}{\alpha^2} \, \frac{d^2\theta_i}{d\tilde{t}^2}.$$

Does that help with the conversion?

Now, at the end, you need to compare what you get with the conversion, which is
$$\frac{1}{\beta^2} \, \frac{d^2 \tilde{\theta}_i}{d\tilde{t}^2}=\frac{k}{I}\left( \tilde{\theta}_{i-1}-2\tilde{\theta}_i+\tilde{\theta}_{i+1} \right),$$
to what you want, which is
$$\frac{d^2 \tilde{\theta}_i}{d\tilde{t}^2}=\tilde{\theta}_{i-1}-2\tilde{\theta}_i+\tilde{\theta}_{i+1}.$$
Can you make those fractions go away? If so, how?
 

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