How does a neutral particle interact with a photon?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the interaction between neutral particles and photons, exploring whether neutral particles can absorb photon energy, reflect photons, or allow photons to pass through. The conversation touches on various types of neutral particles, including elementary particles and composite particles, and examines the nature of interactions at different levels.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that neutral elementary particles, such as neutrinos and the Z0 boson, do not interact with photons directly at tree level.
  • Others argue that composite neutral particles, like neutrons and atoms, can interact with photons due to their charged constituents.
  • A participant mentions that at the elementary particle level, interactions are characterized as scattering, meaning a particle cannot absorb a photon and remain unchanged.
  • It is noted that composite particles with excited bound states can absorb photons and transition to excited states, subsequently re-emitting incoherent photons.
  • Some participants discuss the interaction of photons with other photons, leading to processes like electron-positron pair production, which is described as a second-order process in the coupling constant.
  • Questions arise about the feasibility of using electron-positron pairs as substitutes for hydrogen atoms, considering the properties of positronium and the energy thresholds required for pair production.
  • Concerns are raised regarding the stability of positronium and the energy conditions necessary for its formation from photon collisions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the interactions between neutral particles and photons, with no consensus reached on the nature of these interactions or the implications of photon collisions. Multiple competing perspectives remain throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on definitions of neutral particles, the complexity of interactions at different energy levels, and the unresolved mathematical steps regarding photon interactions and pair production processes.

Bararontok
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What happens if a photon is collided with a neutral particle? Can it also absorb the photon’s energy like a charged particle, can the photon be reflected, or does the photon just pass through the neutral particle?
 
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The only neutral elementary particles are the neutrinos from the fermions, and the Z0 vector boson and the gluons from the bosons. None interact with the photon directly (at tree level)

All other neutral particles (e.g. neutrons, pions, atoms, etc.) have charged sub-particles in their composition, and, thus interact with photons.

We have to mention that, at elementary particle level, all the interactions are scattering. Namely, an elementary particle cannot absorb a photon, and remain the same. Composite particles that have excited bound states, may absorb a photon, and transit to an excited state. As they de-excite, they re-emit an incoherent photon.
 
Dickfore said:
The only neutral elementary particles are the neutrinos from the fermions, and the Z0 vector boson and the gluons from the bosons. None interact with the photon directly (at tree level)

All other neutral particles (e.g. neutrons, pions, atoms, etc.) have charged sub-particles in their composition, and, thus interact with photons.

We have to mention that, at elementary particle level, all the interactions are scattering. Namely, an elementary particle cannot absorb a photon, and remain the same. Composite particles that have excited bound states, may absorb a photon, and transit to an excited state. As they de-excite, they re-emit an incoherent photon.

So what exactly happens when a photon is collided with a neutral elementary particle?
 
To first approximation, the photon just passes through. Nothing happens. (I'm taking Dickfore's word that there are no tree level interactions between photons and neutral elementary particles)
 
Dickfore said:
Composite particles that have excited bound states, may absorb a photon, and transit to an excited state. As they de-excite, they re-emit an incoherent photon.

Do you mean by "incoherent photon" that there is no correlation between the photon's momentum vector (or spin) and the parent particle's momentum vector (or spin)?
 
Dickfore said:
The only neutral elementary particles are the neutrinos from the fermions, and the Z0 vector boson and the gluons from the bosons.
Not to forget the photon on that list.
In fact maybe the best studied interaction of a photon with a neutral particle is the interaction with another photon to produce e.g. electron positron pairs.
 
DrDu said:
Not to forget the photon on that list.
In fact maybe the best studied interaction of a photon with a neutral particle is the interaction with another photon to produce e.g. electron positron pairs.

Right. This is a tree level process, but a second order in the coupling [itex]e[/itex], whose transition amplitude is proportional to the fine-structure constant [itex]\alpha = \frac{e^2}{4 \pi}[/itex] (in natural units, and Lorentz-Heaviside units of electrodynamics), and the cross section is proportional to [itex]\alpha^2[/itex].

In fact, Srednicki's QFT section 59 has the transition amplitude for the reverse process:
[tex] e^{+} \, e^{-} \rightarrow \gamma \, \gamma[/tex]
One needs to multiply by the Lorentz Invariant phase-space (LIPS) volume of the final states (See section 11 of the said book) to obtain a differential cross section.

Notice that this is quite different from a single photon pair production near a nucleus. Namely, this latter process is already accounted for in what I called scattering of a photon from a composite object (nucleus).
 
So if two photons with enough energy collide, then they can be converted into the electron-positron pair. Can the electron-positron pair be used as a substitute for a hydrogen atom, since the positron has just as much charge as a proton? And can radiation from outer space be captured and individual pairs of photons collided to produce plenty of electron-positron pairs that will then be used as substitute hydrogen atoms?
 
Bararontok said:
So if two photons with enough energy collide, then they can be converted into the electron-positron pair. Can the electron-positron pair be used as a substitute for a hydrogen atom, since the positron has just as much charge as a proton? And can radiation from outer space be captured and individual pairs of photons collided to produce plenty of electron-positron pairs that will then be used as substitute hydrogen atoms?

Bound states of electrons and positrons are called positroniums and behave somewhat similar to hydrogen atoms although they decay within some ms again into two gamma quants. So it is difficult to store them.
 
  • #10
Bararontok said:
So if two photons with enough energy collide, then they can be converted into the electron-positron pair. Can the electron-positron pair be used as a substitute for a hydrogen atom, since the positron has just as much charge as a proton? And can radiation from outer space be captured and individual pairs of photons collided to produce plenty of electron-positron pairs that will then be used as substitute hydrogen atoms?

Note that there is a threshold energy of this reaction:
[tex] \sqrt{s} \ge 2 m_e c^2 = 1.02 \, \mathrm{MeV}[/tex]
Thus, the two photons should be γ-rays.
 
  • #11
Bararontok said:
So if two photons with enough energy collide, then they can be converted into the electron-positron pair. Can the electron-positron pair be used as a substitute for a hydrogen atom,

Bound electron-positron pairs are called positronium, and have been extensively studied.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positronium

I've never heard of positronium being produced by pair production from two photons. It seems to me that this would be an extremely delicate operation, because if the photons have too much energy, the e+ and e- will simply fly apart. The difference in energy between ground-state and "ionized" positronium is only 6.8 eV, compared to the 1.02 MeV (1020000 eV) that is necessary simply to produce the masses of the two particles.
 

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