How Does a Neutron Star Affect the Mass of an Object Falling Into It?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the effects of an object falling into a neutron star on the mass of the star, particularly focusing on the energy considerations and gravitational potential energy. Participants explore the implications of energy conservation in a closed system and the definitions of mass from different observational perspectives.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the assumption that gravitational potential energy is positive, prompting further clarification on this point.
  • Another participant asserts that if no energy is radiated away, the total mass of the star-plus-object system remains constant, regardless of whether the object is outside or on the surface of the star.
  • A different viewpoint suggests that from the perspective of an observer on the surface of the star, the mass should increase by 1.1 kg due to the energy of impact being equivalent to additional mass, potentially creating particles with mass.
  • One participant agrees with the idea that the mass of the star could increase by 1.1 kg under a specific definition of "the mass of the star" before and after the object falls.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on how the mass of the star changes with the falling object, with some asserting that it remains constant and others proposing that it increases due to energy considerations. No consensus is reached on the implications of energy and mass in this scenario.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the complexity of defining mass in the context of energy transformations and gravitational effects, with various assumptions about energy conservation and definitions of mass being explored.

Ans
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I try to find answer to quite basic question.
Let's imagine neutron star and object with mass of 1 kg located far from the neutron star. Total energy of the object is ##E = U_g + mc^2##, for case when its velocity is zero and and ##U_g## is potential energy of gravitation.
The neutron star have such mass and radius, what ##U_g =\frac{1}{10} mc^2 ##
The object failed to the star, energy was dissipated in the star, nothing emitted into space.
How mass of the star will be changed?
Will it be increased by 1 kg or by 1.1kg, from point of view of distant observer?
And how mass of the star will be changed if observer is located at surface of the star?
Is any easy way to find answer from GR equations?
 
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Why do you consider the potential energy of gravity to be positive?
 
Under the conditions you've specified, with no energy being radiated away so that the star-plus-object can be treated as a single closed system, the total mass of that system will be the same whether the object is floating around outside the star or squashed onto the surface of the star. In principle you could put the whole thing inside a giant opaque box so you couldn't even see what the object was doing, and the mass inside the box would remain constant.
 
jbriggs444 said:
Why do you consider the potential energy of gravity to be positive?
Really, forgot minus
 
Nugatory said:
Under the conditions you've specified, with no energy being radiated away so that the star-plus-object can be treated as a single closed system, the total mass of that system will be the same whether the object is floating around outside the star or squashed onto the surface of the star. In principle you could put the whole thing inside a giant opaque box so you couldn't even see what the object was doing, and the mass inside the box would remain constant.
I think at least from point of view of observer on surface of star mass of star should increase on 1.1 kg.
Energy of impact is equivalent to 0.1 kg. The energy may create, for example, photons, photons may create electron/positron pairs, etc. And that additional particles have non zero mass.
Is something incorrect in it?
 
Ans said:
I think at least from point of view of observer on surface of star mass of star should increase on 1.1 kg.

For a carefully chosen definition of what counts as "the mass of the star" before and after the object falls to the surface of the star, yes.
 

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