How Does a Photon Pass Through a Filter Without Hidden Variables?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the question of how a photon can pass through a filter without possessing "pre-programmed" properties or hidden variables, as posited by the minimal statistical interpretation of quantum mechanics. Participants explore various interpretations of quantum mechanics, including Many Worlds and Bohmian Mechanics, and their implications for understanding photon behavior in relation to filters.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question how photons can pass through filters if they lack pre-determined properties or hidden variables, suggesting that the minimal statistical interpretation only provides probabilistic predictions without addressing the underlying mechanism.
  • Others propose that interpretations like Many Worlds and Bohmian Mechanics might address the question of photon behavior, although nuances in these interpretations may complicate the discussion.
  • It is noted that the Many Worlds Interpretation (MWI) renders the question of why a specific outcome occurs meaningless, as all outcomes happen in different branches of the universe.
  • Some participants argue that Bohmian Mechanics (BM) includes hidden variables, but these are not local, which raises further questions about their implications for photon behavior.
  • One participant emphasizes that the GHZ theorem indicates that even individual photons cannot have pre-programmed properties, challenging the need for ensemble interpretations to explain quantum expectations.
  • Another participant points out that while individual measurements can contradict local realistic models, ensemble interpretations still rely on statistical analysis across multiple runs to validate quantum predictions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the adequacy of the minimal statistical interpretation and the role of various quantum interpretations in explaining photon behavior. There is no consensus on whether any interpretation satisfactorily addresses the original question posed.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the complexity of defining "pre-programmed" properties and the implications of different interpretations of quantum mechanics. Participants acknowledge that the questions raised may not be well-defined within certain interpretations, such as MWI and BM.

  • #31
DrChinese said:
they all CLAIM to give the same predictions
It's not just a matter of "claiming". All QM interpretations are interpretations of the same math (or equivalent math). Same math = same predictions.

Some models in the literature, such as the GRW stochastic collapse model, are not QM interpretations, although they might sometimes be informally thought of as such: they are different theories from QM, because they use different math (for example, GRW's stochastic collapse is different math), and thus make different predictions. Those models are in principle distinguishable from standard QM by experiment. But those aren't what is referred to in the forum guidelines by the term "QM interpretation".
 
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  • #33
DrChinese said:
I was referring to iste's comment, and generalizing it to anyone who might claim to adhere to the interpretation we are discussing in this thread and its close variants. You mentioned the ensemble interpretation in post #22. Yes, I would assert that ensemble interpretations are ruled out by GHZ.
This is very strong! How is it ruled out by GHZ? All interpretations say the same thing about the GHZ state and measurements on it. It is just core QM, the interpretations don't really play a role here.
 
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  • #34
DrChinese said:
I would assert that ensemble interpretations are ruled out by GHZ.
We already had this discussion earlier in the thread. See in particular my post #24.
 
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  • #35
martinbn said:
All interpretations say the same thing about the GHZ state and measurements on it. It is just core QM, the interpretations don't really play a role here.
Yes, this is what I pointed out at the end of my post #24.
 
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