Probability of a photon passing through a filter

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the probability of a photon passing through a polarization filter, specifically addressing the implications of repeated attempts with the same photon and the nature of photon absorption. Participants explore concepts from quantum physics, including the mathematical formulation of probability and the behavior of photons in relation to filters and beam splitters.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants state that the probability P for a photon to pass through a filter is given by P = cos²(Φ), where Φ is the angle between the photon and the filter's polarization axis.
  • It is noted that if a photon does not pass through the filter, it is absorbed and cannot be reused for further attempts.
  • One participant questions whether a photon that did not pass through the filter can be tested again, suggesting that it would not pass since it failed the first time.
  • Another participant introduces the concept of a polarizing beam splitter, indicating that it allows for re-testing of photons without absorption, but emphasizes that the outcome will remain consistent.
  • There is a reference to the Stern-Gerlach experiment as an analogous situation where particles are split into beams based on their properties, highlighting the probabilistic nature of quantum measurements.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that photons that do not pass through a filter are absorbed and cannot be retested. However, there is a debate regarding the implications of using a polarizing beam splitter and the nature of repeated measurements with the same photon.

Contextual Notes

Some statements rely on assumptions about the nature of photon behavior and the definitions of terms like "absorption" and "re-testing," which may not be universally agreed upon. The discussion also touches on mathematical concepts that are not fully resolved within the thread.

Karagoz
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In quantum physics they say that the probability P for a photon to pass through the filter depends on the angle Φ between the photon and the filter polarization axis:

P = cos^2(Φ)

Photon.png

And if I'm not wrong, when the photon passes through that filter (like illustrated in the image above) the photon will change its polarization axis.

In the picture above where the Φ = 45°, then P = 0.5

So if we let one single photon try passing through that filter, then the probability of it passing through the filter is 50% (P = 0.5)

So if we have 1000 photons, then we can say that ca 50% will pass through that filter since the probability is 50%.

But those photons that didn't pass through the filter, if we try them passing the same filter, will they pass through the filter?

I mean let's say that one single photon (where Φ = 45°) didn't pass through the filter (since there's 0.5 chance it doesn't). If we try with the same photon again and again the photon will never pass through that filter since it didn't pass through it first time?
 

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You cannot try with "the same" photon again. It does not exist anymore.
 
Karagoz said:
I mean let's say that one single photon (where Φ = 45°) didn't pass through the filter (since there's 0.5 chance it doesn't). If we try with the same photon again and again the photon will never pass through that filter since it didn't pass through it first time?
I would think if the photon does not pass through the 1st filter, it is gone and can't be reused.

[Edit: Ah, it appears Orodruin and I posted at the same time.
 
Those photons that didn't pass through the filter are absorbed by it, so we don't get to try them again.

However, there are analogous experiments (google for "Stern-Gerlach experiment") in which a beam of particles is passed through an inhomogeneous magnetic field and splits into two beams - the spin-up ones and the spin-down ones, with 50% probability for each particle. If you pass the "up" beam through another magnetic field oriented in the same direction, 100% will be deflected up this time (and 100% of the "down" beam will be deflected down).

The best way of understanding all of this is to look at how the math works. If you know some linear algebra, googling for "Born rule" will get you started. If you want a layman-friendly good explanation, try Giancarlo Ghirardi's book "Sneaking a look at God's cards".
 
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Karagoz said:
In quantum physics they say that the probability P for a photon to pass through the filter depends on the angle Φ between the photon and the filter polarization axis:

P = cos^2(Φ)

View attachment 223690
And if I'm not wrong, when the photon passes through that filter (like illustrated in the image above) the photon will change its polarization axis.

In the picture above where the Φ = 45°, then P = 0.5

So if we let one single photon try passing through that filter, then the probability of it passing through the filter is 50% (P = 0.5)

So if we have 1000 photons, then we can say that ca 50% will pass through that filter since the probability is 50%.

But those photons that didn't pass through the filter, if we try them passing the same filter, will they pass through the filter?

I mean let's say that one single photon (where Φ = 45°) didn't pass through the filter (since there's 0.5 chance it doesn't). If we try with the same photon again and again the photon will never pass through that filter since it didn't pass through it first time?
If you use a polarizing beam splitter ( which has two output ports) then no photons are absorbed and you can re-test them.
 
Mentz114 said:
If you use a polarizing beam splitter ( which has two output ports) then no photons are absorbed and you can re-test them.

Just to make this more clear: You can re-test them, but you will always get the same result. If you put the same photon directly on an identical beam splitter again, it will of course again exit via the same exit port.
 
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