How Does Horizontal Force on a Constrained Mass Change with Displacement?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a spring-mass system where a mass is constrained to move horizontally after being displaced from its equilibrium position. The problem involves analyzing the horizontal force exerted by the spring as a function of the displacement and determining the potential energy associated with this force.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to derive the expression for the horizontal force based on the spring's properties and displacement. Some participants question the validity of approximations used in the derivation, suggesting alternative methods such as Taylor series expansion. Others explore the implications of their findings on potential energy and the relationship between force and displacement.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the mathematical expressions and exploring different approaches to the problem. There is a recognition of potential errors in earlier calculations, and some participants express confidence in their revised expressions. The discussion is ongoing, with no explicit consensus reached on the final form of the equations.

Contextual Notes

There are indications of constraints related to homework rules, such as the need to avoid posting solutions in certain forums. Participants also express uncertainty regarding the limits of integrals in their calculations, highlighting the complexity of the problem.

MalachiK
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1. The problem statement,
A spring of stiffness q and natural length l0 is fixed at one end to a point x = 0, y = l0 and at the other end to a mass m that is constrained to move horizontally and displaced through a horizontal distance x. The length of the string in this position is l.

1. For x << l0, how does the force in the horizontal direction change with x?
2. If the potential U(x) ≈ Axn, for small x, what are the values of A and n in terms of the constants given?

Homework Equations


Hooke's law etc.

The Attempt at a Solution


It seems to me that the force on the string should be q(l - l0) in the direction of the spring and that the horizontal component of this is q(l - l0) cos(θ) where θ is the angle between the spring and the horizontal. To get something explicitly in x I need to unpack this a bit.

l = √(l02 + x2) and cos(θ) = x/l I get that...
##F_x = \frac{q(\sqrt{l_0^2+x^2}-l_0)x}{\sqrt{l_0^2+x^2}}##
and after squaring, cancelling off terms and taking the root again becomes
##F_x = \frac{qx^2}{\sqrt{l_0^2+x^2}}##

I think that if x << l0 we can say that ##l_0^2 + x^2 \approx l_0^2##
So ##F_x = \frac{qx^2}{l_0}##

q/l0 has units of N/m2.. giving my force expression units of Newtons so my heart fills with hope that it might be correct! It's too good to be true, so almost certainly wrong.

Now since ##\frac{dU}{dx} = F = \frac{qx^2}{l_0}## I get ##U(x) = \frac{qx^3}{3l_0}## which looks something like what we should have and gives us A in terms of some stuff in the problem statement. BUT.. I don't see how n can be expressed in terms of constants from the original problem. The only two candidates are the length terms that would divide to give a dimensionless exponent. I can't make this connection.

Also, later in the problem we're given n = 4 and asked to find the period of the motion. This makes me suspect that n should in fact depend on something to do with the values in the system but I can't see how.

If everything that I've done is correct I shall keep on thinking (tomorrow - it's past midnight here). But if somebody points out a problem then I'll go back and fix it.
 
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MalachiK said:
##F_x = \frac{q(\sqrt{l_0^2+x^2}-l_0)x}{\sqrt{l_0^2+x^2}}##
OK, but how you make this:
MalachiK said:
##F_x = \frac{qx^2}{\sqrt{l_0^2+x^2}}##
My formula is:
$$F_x = \dfrac{q(\sqrt{l_0^2+x^2}-l_0)x}{\sqrt{l_0^2+x^2}}=\frac{qx^3}{(\sqrt{l_0^2+x^2}+l_0)\sqrt{l_0^2+x^2}}$$
MalachiK said:
I think that if x << l0 we can say that l20+x2≈l20l02+x2≈l02l_0^2 + x^2 \approx l_0^2
I think you shouldn't use this approximate
I think you should use Taylor series approximate:$$(1+(\frac{x}{l_0})^2)^n$$
 
Last edited:
I'm taking another look at this this evening.
##F_x = \frac{q(\sqrt{l_0^2+x^2}-l_0)x}{\sqrt{l_0^2+x^2}}## is just...
##F_x = q x \frac{\sqrt{l_0^2+x^2}-l_0}{\sqrt{l_0^2+x^2}}##
##F_x = qx \bigg({1-\frac{l_0}{\sqrt{l_0^2+x^2}}}\bigg)##
I don't know what I was thinking the first time I tried to wrangle that expression. I think I got fixated on multiplying to remove the roots or something.
For very small values of x, I guess I can take the first couple of terms from the Taylor series of the fraction
##\frac{l_0}{\sqrt{l_0^2+x^2}} = 1 - \frac{l_0x^2}{2l_0^3} + ...##
and put that into the force expression to get
##F_x = -qx\bigg(\frac{x^2}{2l_0^2}\bigg) = \frac{-qx^3}{2l_0^2}##
This seems like a better answer because it has the force pointing in the right direction, the correct units and it has the potential energy going like ##x^4##.
 
Last edited:
MalachiK said:
This seems like a better answer
Looks right. Just before the final step, you lost an exponent of 2 on l0 in typing it in, but it reappeared at the end.
 
haruspex said:
Looks right. Just before the final step, you lost an exponent of 2 on l0 in typing it in, but it reappeared at the end.
Oh yeah. thanks for pointing that out. I just did an edit and fixed it.

Now I'm going to have a crack at the time period.
 
Okay.. setting ##B = \frac{q}{2ml_0^2}## I can write ##F_x(x) = m\frac{d^2x}{dt^2}## so ##\frac{d^2x}{dt^2} = -Bx^3##

I had to look up some examples, but in the end I got a solution that I posted here. I should have read the rules and not posted this in the DE forum. Anyhow, eventually I get this...

##\sqrt{\frac{2}{B}}\int{\frac{1}{\sqrt{x_0^4+x^4}}dx} = \int{dt}##

It seems that the integral on the left is only defined for ##x < x_0## which makes we wonder if this is correct. I don't actually need to evaluate the integral as in this case the problem just asks me to show that the period = some expression that looks like the left hand side integral evaluated between some limits. In fact, the result I'm given is [some constants] ##\int_0^1{\frac{du}{\sqrt{1-u^4}}}##

If I evaluate the integral on the right between 0 and T/4 then I'll get T/4 (T = the period). This means that the left hand side integral needs to be evaluated between 0 and ##x_0##, right?
 

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