How Does the Ideal Gas Theory Account for Volume and Mass?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the ideal gas theory, specifically addressing the assumptions of negligible volume and mass, and how these relate to the calculated volume of gases at standard temperature and pressure (STP). Participants seek clarification on the apparent contradictions in the theory's assumptions and its practical implications.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion regarding the ideal gas theory's assumptions of negligible volume and mass while noting that 1 mol of gas at STP occupies 22.4L.
  • Another participant suggests that the text might mean to assume zero/negligible change in mass and volume rather than absolute values.
  • A third participant emphasizes the need for direct quotes from the textbook to clarify the discussion, suggesting that miscommunication may be occurring.
  • One participant clarifies that "no volume" refers to the volume of individual gas particles rather than the bulk gas, and notes that the 22.4L figure is an approximation that does not apply perfectly to real gases due to the volume occupied by particles and intermolecular forces.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the interpretation of the ideal gas theory's assumptions, with multiple competing views and clarifications presented throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights potential ambiguities in the textbook's language regarding the assumptions of the ideal gas theory, particularly concerning the definitions of volume and mass in the context of gas behavior.

wanderlust44
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This might be a stupid question, but I am confused about the ideal gas theory. I know that we assume high temperatures and low pressures, and that the volume is negligible when we compare it to a container, but my textbook is very confusing about this point.

It says assume zero/negligible volume and mass, but then goes on to calculate 1 mol of any gas at STP is 22.4L. Also, it says that the conditions of ideal gas do assume that there is no volume or IMF, but that it would have some mass. How can it have no volume and a 22.4L volume (and no mass)? I think I need clarification with regards to what it is talking about. Is it talking about the particles?

Also, if we look at the graph of pressure and temperature, wouldn't negligible volume mean 0K rather than 273.15K? Thanks for the clarification.
 
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Could the text be saying, assume zero/negligible *change* in mass and volume?
 
It would be better for us to provide direct quotes from your text on this point. All we are doing now is playing a game of Telephone.
 
No volume refers to the volume taken up by a specific atom of gas, not the bulk gas as a whole. The 22.4L of 1mol at 1bar pressure is only an approximation and does not hold for real gases, in reality the small/light monatomic gases are close to 22.4L but not exactly there. The discrepancy lies in the fact that each particle of gas does in fact take up some volume and that there are slight intermolecular forces.
 

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