How Far Is the Star Cluster with Apparent Magnitude 15 mag and B-V of 1.39 mag?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the distance to a star cluster based on its apparent magnitude and color index, using the properties of a reference star, Vega. The problem involves concepts from astrophysics, particularly related to stellar magnitudes and interstellar reddening.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Conceptual clarification

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the calculation of intrinsic brightness and the use of Vega as a reference point for determining absolute magnitude. There are questions about the signs in logarithmic calculations and the definitions of various variables involved in the equations.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the problem, questioning assumptions about the calculations, and clarifying the definitions of terms. Some guidance has been offered regarding the correct approach to determining color excess and the implications of using Vega's properties.

Contextual Notes

There is mention of confusion regarding the definitions of several variables and the complexity of the equations involved. Some participants express uncertainty about the calculations and the assumptions made in the initial steps.

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Homework Statement


Question: Vega is a star of spectral type A0V at a distance of 7.76pc and has by definition
##m V =m B =0.0\space mag.##

Observations of a star cluster show, that all stars in the cluster with a spectral type A0V have an apparent magnitude of ##m V =15 \space mag## and a colour index of ##B-V=1.39 \space mag ##. Assuming an interstellar reddening law of ##A V /E(B-V)=3.2##, calculate the distance of this star cluster.

Homework Equations


$$m-M=5log(d/10) \space [1]$$
$$E(B-V)=(B-V)-(B-V)_0 \space [2]$$
$$m_v=M_v+5log(d)-5+A_v \space [3]$$

3. The Attempt at a Solution

Step 1: To calculate the intrinsic brightness which is ##(B-V)_0## so I used vega to do so.
I did this because according to wiki intrinsic brightness is a measure of absolute magnitude. So my reasoning is that if as the cluster and vega are in the same spectral band then they would sahre the same absolute magnitudes.

$$0-M_v=5log(7.76/10)=0.55$$

Step 2: Substituting this into my equation 2 as follows i.e colour excess equation.

$$E(B-V)=1.39-0.55=0.84$$

Step 3: Rearange the equation ##A V /E(B-V)=3.2## to calculate the extinction value ##A_v##

$$A_v=(3.2)(0.84)=2.69$$

Step 4: Using equation ##[3]## the modified distance modulus and rearanging to make ##d## the subject, I make ##d## the following:

$$10^{\frac{m_v -M_v+5-A_v}{5}}=d$$$$10^{\frac{15 -0.55+5-2.69}{5}}=2249pc$$

This to me seem quite far out, and in practical term I don't think it is possible. Have I made a wrong calculation or is my assumption in the first step completely wrong, or have I complete miss understood the question.

Any advice would be much appreciated thanks in advance.
 
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Taylor_1989 said:
$$0-M_v=5log(7.76/10)=0.55$$
Sign?
 
Taylor_1989 said:
@haruspex what do you mean by Sign?

I think you forgot a negative sign here:
log(0.776) is negative.
 
Alloymouse said:
I think you forgot a negative sign here:
log(0.776) is negative.
Sorry I automatically carred it though so, that my fault for missing the step, so it should read $$M_v=0.55$$
 
Taylor_1989 said:
Sorry I automatically carred it though so, that my fault for missing the step, so it should read $$M_v=0.55$$
Ok.
But I am not a cosmologist, so I am snowed by the plethora of variables, none of which are defined.
Would you mind adding some clarification, or maybe a link?
mV
mB
B
V
E, or is it a function E()?
A, or is it a variable AV?
m
M
(B-V)0
mv
Mv
Av
 
Taylor_1989 said:

Homework Statement


Question: Vega is a star of spectral type A0V at a distance of 7.76pc and has by definition
##m V =m B =0.0\space mag.##

Observations of a star cluster show, that all stars in the cluster with a spectral type A0V have an apparent magnitude of ##m V =15 \space mag## and a colour index of ##B-V=1.39 \space mag ##. Assuming an interstellar reddening law of ##A V /E(B-V)=3.2##, calculate the distance of this star cluster.

Homework Equations


$$m-M=5log(d/10) \space [1]$$
$$E(B-V)=(B-V)-(B-V)_0 \space [2]$$
$$m_v=M_v+5log(d)-5+A_v \space [3]$$

3. The Attempt at a Solution

Step 1: To calculate the intrinsic brightness which is ##(B-V)_0## so I used vega to do so.
I did this because according to wiki intrinsic brightness is a measure of absolute magnitude. So my reasoning is that if as the cluster and vega are in the same spectral band then they would sahre the same absolute magnitudes.

$$0-M_v=5log(7.76/10)=0.55$$

Step 2: Substituting this into my equation 2 as follows i.e colour excess equation.

$$E(B-V)=1.39-0.55=0.84$$

Step 3: Rearange the equation ##A V /E(B-V)=3.2## to calculate the extinction value ##A_v##

$$A_v=(3.2)(0.84)=2.69$$

Step 4: Using equation ##[3]## the modified distance modulus and rearanging to make ##d## the subject, I make ##d## the following:

$$10^{\frac{m_v -M_v+5-A_v}{5}}=d$$$$10^{\frac{15 -0.55+5-2.69}{5}}=2249pc$$

This to me seem quite far out, and in practical term I don't think it is possible. Have I made a wrong calculation or is my assumption in the first step completely wrong, or have I complete miss understood the question.

Any advice would be much appreciated thanks in advance.
I think for the step on finding E(B-V), you just need to sub (B-V) as 0 as the Stars in the cluster have the same spectral type as Vega. Hence you should get E(B-V) to be -1.39.

Take my point with a pinch of salt though, it's been a while since I last did stuff like this.
 
Okay first @haruspex sorry for not labelling the equations correctly, but after redoing the question and a bit of research through some books @Alloymouse is correct I should have set ##(B-V)_0=0##. I am new to the como stuff as it something I am not very intresed in but unfortunately a compulsory module.

But thank you all for the help
 

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