News How has Bush economics affected the job market in the United States?

[Moonbear]

I have no proof or anything other than the assertion that my best guess is that once stuff like this gets federal funding, it will become mandatory in time. Just like when Massachusetts started requiring compulsory school, the rest of the country soon followed suit. Or we saw from the Germans (pre world war I) how best to educate the masses.

There are already afterschool programs like that. The only difference I can see in Kerry's position from that of previous administrations is that he's proposing they run until 6 pm rather than 4 or 5 like most afterschool programs run. This gives working parents, who get off work at 5, a chance to get to the school to pick up their kids. There are afterschool programs now, though funding for these programs has been declining. Looking at the numbers of kids this is supposed to affect and the description of the program, it looks more like a supplement to the welfare program. I suspect this is intended more for kids whose parents can't afford babysitters or afterschool daycare, and also need to work a full-time job, so can't be home at 3 when their kids get out of school. Such programs for "latchkey kids" have been around for ages, he's just putting funding back into it. I'm not even sure his numbers increase funding from past levels, I think it just restores funding to a program that has been cut drastically.

 

[Kerrie]

edit(next morning): Rethinkig this, the fact that Oregon is doing worse than the national average means that Ivan's personal perceptions are not just incomplete, but are also skewed toward leading him to believe things are worse everywhere than they actually are. Ie, seeing unemployment at 7% in Oregon could lead him to assume its 7% in the whole country, when it isn't. This is a secondary danger with basing an opinion on personal perception and a limited set of facts.

Ivan's perceptions are based on what he is directly experiencing-his quote:

One of my biggest customers [historically], and a one hundred old Portland company has gone south - all the way to Mexico. Oh, the corporate owners will still make money, but five hundred highly skilled workers are effectively doomed - most are already gone.

I think he has every right to gripe.

 

[russ_watters]

Ivan's perceptions are based on what he is directly experiencing...

Yes, I know - that's the problem: Ivan is not directly experiencing everything. One must recognize that all perceptions are, by their very nature, limited and try instead, to base their opinions on all the facts - not their perceptions.

 

[Kerrie]

Yes, I know - that's the problem: Ivan is not directly experiencing everything. One must recognize that all perceptions are, by their very nature, limited and try instead, to base their opinions on all the facts - not their perceptions.

it's people's perceptions that tend to play a direct role in reality. this situation in the United States has affected ivan, but not you (i am assuming?) perhaps if it did affect you directly-you losing money in your pocket for example- you might have a different opinion on it, thus taking a different stand on it then you are now. your perception was obviously limited also since you were unaware of the high unemployment here in oregon thus not being able to understand Ivan's perception

 

[selfAdjoint]

And even places where the nominal unemployment rate is not that high are having problems. For example, the IT want ads, which used to cover four pages in the Sunday Chicago Tribune, now cover much less than one page (last time I looked). That's another piece of "partial" information. But like Kerrie, I guess I would like to know where russ is, and what segment of the economy he's in, that he can be so nonchalant.

 

[member 5645]

And even places where the nominal unemployment rate is not that high are having problems. For example, the IT want ads, which used to cover four pages in the Sunday Chicago Tribune, now cover much less than one page (last time I looked). That's another piece of "partial" information. But like Kerrie, I guess I would like to know where russ is, and what segment of the economy he's in, that he can be so nonchalant.

I'd venture to say I'm as nonchalant as Russ is on all of this. And so let me say that I am in the IT industry. I rode the wave up 7+ years ago, and subsequently rode it down. Not only that, I was in Houston, in the IT industry gas and oil sector when Enron crashed and 9/11 happened.
All that has happened is IT is shifting around. The industry was bloated and inefficient before. My own business has personally been the cause of having a dozen people, or more, laid off. I have NOT remade those jobs, because I do not need to.
Your example of the IT industry is one that is highly flawed.

 

[russ_watters]

it's people's perceptions that tend to play a direct role in reality. this situation in the United States has affected ivan, but not you (i am assuming?) perhaps if it did affect you directly-you losing money in your pocket for example- you might have a different opinion on it, thus taking a different stand on it then you are now.

Perhaps, but again, if I did that, I'd be holding an uninformed opinion.

your perception was obviously limited also since you were unaware of the high unemployment here in oregon thus not being able to understand Ivan's perception

Certainly, all perceptions are limited - mine included. Again, that's my entire point. That's why I strive to not base my opinion on my perceptions, but on larger facts - such as the actual unemployment and income stats for the country. Ivan's extension of his perception into a "fact" that he made-up that is waaaaay off shows just how flawed perceptions can be and why it is important to not get fooled by our own perceptions.

But like Kerrie, I guess I would like to know where russ is, and what segment of the economy he's in, that he can be so nonchalant.

I'm a mechanical engineer (I design building a/c systems) in southeastern PA.

Trust me guys, I have some great examples of bad things happening to friends/relatives/neighbors of mine. 3 of my closest friends used to work for UNISYS, which is closing a large facility about 5 miles from my house. 2 got laid off and the 3rd quit so he wouldn't be the last one standing in an empty building (all 3 are doing fine today). But my opinion is not based on this one anecdote because I recognize that it isn't representative.