How is 1N enough to move a 0.1kg apple 1 meter high?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the physics of lifting a 0.1 kg apple to a height of 1 meter, specifically examining the relationship between force, work, and energy in this context. Participants explore concepts related to gravitational force, work done against gravity, and the mechanics of lifting objects.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant calculates that holding a 0.1 kg apple requires approximately 1 N of force, but questions how this force can also result in work when the apple is lifted.
  • Another participant suggests that to initiate movement, a force greater than 1 N is needed, but once the apple is moving, a constant force of 1 N can maintain its ascent.
  • A different viewpoint indicates that applying a force slightly greater than 1 N allows for upward acceleration, and questions the implications of this excess force.
  • One participant emphasizes that while holding the apple does not constitute work, lifting it does require energy, which is reflected in the increase of potential energy.
  • Another participant introduces the concept of conservative force fields, noting that the energy required to lift an object depends only on the height difference, not the path taken.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying interpretations of the mechanics involved in lifting the apple, with some agreeing on the necessity of an initial force greater than 1 N to initiate movement, while others focus on the work done once the apple is in motion. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the nuances of force application and work in this scenario.

Contextual Notes

There are assumptions about the conditions under which the apple is lifted, such as the initial state of rest and the nature of the forces involved. The discussion does not resolve the complexities of force application and the resulting motion.

M3D1
Messages
3
Reaction score
0

Example: How much energy is needed to lift an 0.1 kg apple up 1 meter?​

gravity apple force


To hold a 0.1 kg apple against gravity needs 1 Newton of force:
F = mg
F
= 0.1 kg × 9.8 m/s2
F
1 N
But holding an apple is not work, the apple needs to move!

So, raising it using 1 N for 1 m (both in same direction!) gives:

Work = 1 N × 1 m × cos 0° = 1 J
‐--------‐-----‐------------
i am confused in that if 1N only holds the apple (since the force of gravity and my hand add up zero net force to apple) then how does apple moves up 1 meter by just 1N to a 1 meter distance to result in one J of energy. i don't know whether i misunderstood the concept of work or misunderstood sth about question .
thanks in advance for any help i could receive
 
Physics news on Phys.org
M3D1 said:
i am confused in that if 1N only holds the apple (since the force of gravity and my hand add up zero net force to apple) then how does apple moves up 1 meter by just 1N to a 1 meter distance to result in one J of energy.
I think what you're asking is how can exerting exactly 1 N of force actually lift the apple. If you start from rest, you have a good point. To start things moving you must at least exert a little more force than just enough to balance gravity! But the work you have to do against gravity is still just what you calculated. Any additional work you do goes to increasing the kinetic energy of the apple.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: M3D1
If you apply a teeny tiny force greater than 1 N for a very short time to get the apple moving up and then reduce the force to exactly 1 N, the apple will keep on moving up at constant speed. When you get to 1 m higher, reverse the process to stop the apple and keep it there. The apple is still at rest, the change in kinetic energy is zero, the average force exerted by your hand is 1 N and the apple is 1 m higher than it was. The (positive) work done by your hand on the apple is equal to the change in potential energy of the apple plus Earth system.

On edit: I see that @Doc Al preempted me with essentially the same answer.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: M3D1
Well, whatever the ups and downs of the apple, if it starts at rest and ends at rest ##1m## higher, then it has gained ##1J## of potential energy.

How it got there we can leave to those with a flair for engineering problems.
 
Last edited:
If it takes 0.98 N to hold the apple in place against gravity, and you apply 1.00 N, so you will have an excess force of 0.02 N.
Since, F = m⋅a ; the apple will accelerate upwards, with; a = 0.02 N / 0.1 kg .
Given enough time, the apple could reach escape velocity.
 
  • Like
  • Skeptical
  • Love
Likes   Reactions: M3D1, berkeman, rudransh verma and 1 other person
Baluncore said:
If it takes 0.98 N to hold the apple in place against gravity, and you apply 1.00 N, so you will have an excess force of 0.02 N.
Since, F = m⋅a ; the apple will accelerate upwards, with; a = 0.02 N / 0.1 kg .
Given enough time, the apple could reach escape velocity.
LOL. :-p

I'm sure the intention was to exert just enough upward force to balance the gravitational force on the apple. (But you are correct.)
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: M3D1
M3D1 said:
i don't know whether i misunderstood the concept of work
You do not misunderstand the concept. As you prove by writing
M3D1 said:
But holding an apple is not work

The everyday experience that you get tired from holding up a bag of apples does not mean that it is work in the physics sense: a shelf or a hook on the wall can do exactly the same job and does not have to be provided with energy to do it.

But lifting a bag of apples from a lower shelf to a higher one does require work. Lifting the weight of an old fashioned clock requires work. The work (energy) that can run the clock for a while.

##\ ##
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: vanhees71, M3D1 and PeroK
I think the concept of a conservative force field is important here. The gravitational force field is conservative. This essentially means that if you move something from location A to location B in that field, the energy used to get from A to B only depends on the field potential (height above ground in this case), and not on the path taken. This means that the amount of energy only depends on the height difference.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: vanhees71

Similar threads

  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
3K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
13K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
7K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 54 ·
2
Replies
54
Views
6K
  • · Replies 138 ·
5
Replies
138
Views
8K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 53 ·
2
Replies
53
Views
5K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
2K