How is Complex z Raised to a Power Equal to Exponential?

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter naggy
  • Start date Start date
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between complex numbers and their exponentiation, specifically exploring the equation z^a = exp(a * ln(z)) for complex z and the implications of branch cuts in logarithmic functions. Participants examine the validity of this equation under different conditions and the complexities introduced by the argument function.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question the validity of the equation z^a = exp(a * ln(z)) for complex z, noting that ln(z^a) is not generally equal to a * ln(z).
  • There is a suggestion that assuming a is a real number simplifies the discussion, but arbitrary complex a may not yield significantly different results.
  • Participants discuss the importance of the argument function in defining the logarithm, which affects the branch of the logarithm used.
  • It is noted that the equation is generally true under specific definitions, but branch cuts can lead to discrepancies.
  • Some participants highlight that while a * log(|z|) = log(e^(a * log(|z|))) is always true, the term involving a * arg(z) introduces complications due to potential integer multiples of 2π.
  • There is a debate about whether the extra factor of i * arg(z) is the sole reason for the discrepancies in the logarithmic identities.
  • One participant suggests that if the i * arg factor is disregarded, the equation simplifies to a form that holds true for real numbers.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of branch cuts and the conditions under which the logarithmic identities hold. There is no consensus on the resolution of these issues, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the limitations of the logarithmic function in complex analysis, particularly regarding the dependence on the chosen branch and the implications of the argument function. The presence of branch cuts and their effects on the validity of logarithmic identities are central to the conversation.

naggy
Messages
58
Reaction score
0
How can this be true(z is complex)

z^a = exp(a * ln(z))

but in general ln(z^a) is not equal to a * ln(z)
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Are you mainly interested in the case where a\in\mathbb{R}? (Answer would be simpler then)
 
Well, anyway, I'll assume that a\in\mathbb{R}. Arbitrary a\in\mathbb{C} would result in more calculating, but I don't believe there would be anything highly different.

naggy said:
How can this be true(z is complex)

z^a = exp(a * ln(z))

This equation is usually true, because it is the definition of the left side. First you must decide what argument function \textrm{arg}:\mathbb{C}\to\mathbb{R} you are using. This choice will fix the branch of the logarithm,

<br /> \log(z) = \log |z| + i\textrm{arg}(z),<br />

and then we denote

<br /> z^a := e^{a\log (z)}.<br />

The equation is not necessarily true, if you start using other branches of logarithm later, of course.

but in general ln(z^a) is not equal to a * ln(z)

This is not true always because of the branch cuts.

<br /> \log (z^a) = \log(e^{a\log(z)}) = \log( \underbrace{e^{a\log |z|}}_{\in\mathbb{R}} \underbrace{e^{ia\textrm{arg}(z)}}_{\in S^1\subset\mathbb{C}} ) = \log(e^{a\log |z|}) \;+\; i\textrm{arg}(e^{ia\textrm{arg}(z)})<br />

<br /> a\log(z) = a\log |z| + ia\textrm{arg}(z)<br />

The equation

<br /> a\log |z| = \log(e^{a\log |z|})<br />

is always true, but

<br /> a\textrm{arg}(z) = \textrm{arg}(e^{ia\textrm{arg}(z)}) + 2\pi n<br />

may need some n\in\mathbb{Z} depending on how the argument function happens to behave with these a,z.
 
Last edited:
jostpuur said:
Well, anyway, I'll assume that a\in\mathbb{R}. Arbitrary a\in\mathbb{C} would result in more calculating, but I don't believe there would be anything highly different.



This equation is usually true, because it is the definition of the left side. First you must decide what argument function \textrm{arg}:\mathbb{C}\to\mathbb{R} you are using. This choice will fix the branch of the logarithm,

<br /> \log(z) = \log |z| + i\textrm{arg}(z),<br />

and then we denote

<br /> z^a := e^{a\log (z)}.<br />

The equation is not necessarily true, if you start using other branches of logarithm later, of course.



This is not true always because of the branch cuts.

<br /> \log (z^a) = \log(e^{a\log(z)}) = \log( \underbrace{e^{a\log |z|}}_{\in\mathbb{R}} \underbrace{e^{ia\textrm{arg}(z)}}_{\in S^1\subset\mathbb{C}} ) = \log(e^{a\log |z|}) \;+\; i\textrm{arg}(e^{ia\textrm{arg}(z)})<br />

<br /> a\log(z) = a\log |z| + ia\textrm{arg}(z)<br />

The equation

<br /> a\log |z| = \log(e^{a\log |z|})<br />

is always true, but

<br /> a\textrm{arg}(z) = \textrm{arg}(e^{ia\textrm{arg}(z)}) + 2\pi n<br />

may need some n\in\mathbb{Z} depending on how the argument function happens to behave with these a,z.


So... basically it's not true due to the extra 2*pi*n factor at the end?

No that can´t be true. Then the equation would be true for the principal value?

No wait. It's the extra iarg factor in this

<br /> \log (z^a) = \log(e^{a\log(z)}) = \log( \underbrace{e^{a\log |z|}}_{\in\mathbb{R}} \underbrace{e^{ia\textrm{arg}(z)}}_{\in S^1\subset\mathbb{C}} ) = \log(e^{a\log |z|}) \;+\; i\textrm{arg}(e^{ia\textrm{arg}(z)})<br />

If there is no iarg, then there is only log(e^(a*log|z|)) which is |z|^a and this is true for the real numbers since |z| is really replaced by x
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
4K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
4K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
3K