When and How Does an Integral Have a Cauchy Principal Value?

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter CAF123
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Cauchy
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the conditions under which an integral has a Cauchy principal value and its relationship to integrable singularities. Participants explore specific examples and mathematical expressions to illustrate their points, focusing on the implications of singularities in various integrals.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the conditions for an integral to have a Cauchy principal value, suggesting it relates to the existence of a symmetrical limit about the singular point.
  • Another participant presents specific integrals and evaluates them, concluding that the principal value exists for some while it does not for others, based on their behavior near singularities.
  • Concerns are raised regarding the interpretation of integrals with logarithmic terms, particularly how the presence of a delta parameter affects the existence of the principal value.
  • Participants discuss the implications of delta-independent versus delta-dependent results in integrals, noting that the former can yield a well-defined principal value while the latter may diverge.
  • Clarifications are sought regarding the nature of singularities and the conditions under which the principal value can be computed, with some suggesting that both integrals diverge yet have different behaviors in terms of principal values.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the existence of Cauchy principal values for specific integrals, with no consensus reached on the implications of singularities or the conditions necessary for principal values to exist.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the need for careful consideration of limits and the behavior of integrals near singularities, indicating that assumptions about integrability and the nature of singularities are crucial to the discussion.

CAF123
Gold Member
Messages
2,918
Reaction score
87
Under what conditions does an integral have a cauchy principal value and how is it related to an integral having an integrable singularity?

E.g $$p.v \int_{-\delta}^{\delta} \frac{dz}{z} = 0$$ If I evaluate the integral along a semi circle in the complex plane I'll get ##i \pi##. So the cauchy principal value seems to be the real part of this calculation which is zero.

Similarly, $$\int_{-\delta}^{\delta} dz \frac{\ln(z)}{z} = i \pi \ln (\delta) + \pi^2/2, $$ but I don't think it's correct to say that the cauchy principle value is pi^2/2 in this case because the imaginary part depends on delta still, i.e. the singularity was not integrable. Are these statements correct?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Basically the principal value exists when a symmetrical limit about the singular point exists. Consider the integrals:

$$\text{p.v.}\int_{-1}^1 \frac{1}{z}dz$$
$$\text{p.v.} \int_{-1}^1 \frac{1}{z^2}dz$$
$$\text{p.v.} \int_{-1}^1 \frac{1}{z e^z}dz$$

Just looking at the plots, intuitively you suspect the first one is zero, the second one does not exist and the third if it exists is probably negative right? I'll do the first one:

$$\int_{-1}^1 \frac{1}{z}dz=\lim_{\delta\to 0} \biggr\{\log(z)\biggr|_{-1}^{-\delta}+\log(z)\biggr|_{\delta}^1\biggr\}$$
$$=\lim_{\delta\to 0}\biggr\{\log(-\delta)-\log(-1)+\log(1)-\log(\delta)\biggr\}$$
Now using the branch ##\log(z)=\ln|z|+i\theta,\;\; -\pi<\theta\leq \pi##, we have:
$$=\lim_{\delta\to 0}\biggr\{(\ln|\delta|+\pi i)-(\ln|1|+\pi i)+0-\ln|\delta|\biggr\}$$
$$=\lim_{\delta\to 0}\biggr\{\ln|\delta|-\ln|\delta|\biggr\}=0$$

Do the second one similarly and the third one you can do in Mathematica with special functions and should get a little less than -2.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: FactChecker
Thanks, what does the fact that $$\int_{-\delta}^{\delta} \frac{dz}{z-i\epsilon} = i \pi $$ (i.e delta independent) mean compared to say, $$\int_{-\delta}^{\delta} \frac{dz \ln(z-i\epsilon)}{z-i\epsilon} = i \pi \ln(\delta) + \pi^2/2$$ (i.e delta dependent)

In the first integral, the singularity at z=0 is not integrable yet the principal value exists while in the second case the singularity is not integrable and the principal value doesn't exist. As delta goes to zero in the first result, the rhs is well behaved while in the second it is diverging due to the ##\ln(\delta)##.
 
CAF123 said:
Thanks, what does the fact that $$\int_{-\delta}^{\delta} \frac{dz}{z-i\epsilon} = i \pi $$ (i.e delta independent) mean compared to say, $$\int_{-\delta}^{\delta} \frac{dz \ln(z-i\epsilon)}{z-i\epsilon} = i \pi \ln(\delta) + \pi^2/2$$ (i.e delta dependent)

In the first integral, the singularity at z=0 is not integrable yet the principal value exists while in the second case the singularity is not integrable and the principal value doesn't exist. As delta goes to zero in the first result, the rhs is well behaved while in the second it is diverging due to the ##\ln(\delta)##.

I don't understand what you mean by "singularity is not integrable". Also, perhaps you made a typo: The singularity of both is not zero but rather at ##i\epsilon##.

Also, I think these are equivalent to yours and a little easier to analyze:
$$\int_{-1}^1 \frac{1}{z} dz$$
$$\int_{-1}^1 \frac{\log(z)}{z}dz$$
And as written the integrals diverge. However the Cauchy Principal Value exists for the first and not the second. Also, little confusing what you're doing with the ##\delta## above: In order to take the Principal Value, we take a symmetrical limit around the singularity, zero for these two, with parameters ##(-\delta,\delta)## and then let ##\delta\to 0##. We showed the first integral converges in the prindipal sense above and can do a similar analysis for the second. For the second one, we end up with an expression:
$$\lim_{\delta\to 0}\biggr\{\frac{\ln^2|\delta|+2\pi i \ln|\delta|-\pi^2}{2}-\frac{\ln^2|\delta|}{2}\biggr\}$$
$$\lim_{\delta\to 0}\biggr\{\pi i \ln|\delta|-\frac{\pi^2}{2}\biggr\}\to \infty$$
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 21 ·
Replies
21
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
4K
  • · Replies 29 ·
Replies
29
Views
5K