Derivation of a complex integral with real part

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the differentiation of a complex integral with respect to a variable \( Y \). Participants explore the application of the Leibniz rule for differentiation under the integral sign, particularly focusing on the integral's dependence on \( Y \) through a function \( d(\alpha) \). The context includes mathematical reasoning and technical exploration of complex analysis and integral calculus.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning, Technical explanation, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a complex integral \( C \) and seeks to differentiate it with respect to \( Y \), suggesting that only \( d(\alpha) \) depends on \( Y \) and proposing the use of the Leibniz rule.
  • Another participant agrees with the differentiation approach if \( Y \) is real-valued but expresses uncertainty about the case when \( Y \) is complex.
  • A later reply indicates that the differentiation approach appears to work for complex values of \( Y \) as well.
  • One participant confirms that \( Y \) is real-valued and seeks validation of their derivative calculation.
  • Another participant agrees that the derivative seems correct and suggests a simplification of the expression involving \( d(\alpha) \).
  • Additional information is provided regarding the differentiation of integrals when the variable of differentiation appears in both the limits and the integrand, outlining a more general formula for such cases.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the differentiation approach when \( Y \) is real-valued, but there is some uncertainty regarding the implications if \( Y \) is complex. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the broader applicability of the differentiation method under different conditions.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the validity of the differentiation approach may depend on whether \( Y \) is real or complex, and there are unresolved considerations regarding the treatment of the real part of complex functions in differentiation.

shardur
Messages
2
Reaction score
0
Hey,

I tried to construct the derivation of the integral C with respect to Y:

$$ \frac{\partial C}{\partial Y} = ? $$
$$ C = \frac{2}{\pi} \int_0^{\infty} Re(d(\alpha) \frac{exp(-i \cdot ln(f))}{i \alpha}) d \alpha $$
with
$$d(\alpha) = exp(i \alpha (b + ln(Y)) - u) \cdot exp(v(\alpha) + z (\alpha))$$
where ##Re()## is the real part of whatever is written in the brackets, ##i## is the imaginary number and ##exp()## is the exponential function of whatever is written in the brackets. ##d(\alpha), v(\alpha), z(\alpha)## are functions depending on ##\alpha##. However, ##v(\alpha), z(\alpha)## are not dependent on ##Y##.
How do I differentiate this complex integral? As only ##d(\alpha)## depends on ##Y##, do I just need to differentiate ##d(\alpha)## with respect to ##Y## and plug the outcome of that into my integral? I think that would be what the Leibniz rule would suggest. So like:
$$ \frac{\partial C}{\partial Y} = \frac{2}{\pi} \int_0^{\infty} Re(\frac{\partial d(\alpha)}{\partial Y} \frac{exp(-i \cdot ln(f))}{i \alpha}) d \alpha$$
Would that be correct? Because then
$$\frac{\partial d(\alpha)}{\partial Y} = \frac{i \alpha}{Y} \cdot exp(i \alpha (b + ln(Y)) - u) \cdot exp(v(\alpha) + z (\alpha)) $$
Would that be the correct way to differentiate the integral or am I doing it completely wrong?

I hope I defined everything properly, if not just let me know.

Thanks a lot for your help!
 
Physics news on Phys.org
shardur said:
Hey,

I tried to construct the derivation of the integral C with respect to Y:

$$ \frac{\partial C}{\partial Y} = ? $$
$$ C = \frac{2}{\pi} \int_0^{\infty} Re(d(\alpha) \frac{exp(-i \cdot ln(f))}{i \alpha}) d \alpha $$
with
$$d(\alpha) = exp(i \alpha (b + ln(Y)) - u) \cdot exp(v(\alpha) + z (\alpha))$$
where ##Re()## is the real part of whatever is written in the brackets, ##i## is the imaginary number and ##exp()## is the exponential function of whatever is written in the brackets. ##d(\alpha), v(\alpha), z(\alpha)## are functions depending on ##\alpha##. However, ##v(\alpha), z(\alpha)## are not dependent on ##Y##.
How do I differentiate this complex integral? As only ##d(\alpha)## depends on ##Y##, do I just need to differentiate ##d(\alpha)## with respect to ##Y## and plug the outcome of that into my integral? I think that would be what the Leibniz rule would suggest. So like:
$$ \frac{\partial C}{\partial Y} = \frac{2}{\pi} \int_0^{\infty} Re(\frac{\partial d(\alpha)}{\partial Y} \frac{exp(-i \cdot ln(f))}{i \alpha}) d \alpha$$
Would that be correct? Because then
$$\frac{\partial d(\alpha)}{\partial Y} = \frac{i \alpha}{Y} \cdot exp(i \alpha (b + ln(Y)) - u) \cdot exp(v(\alpha) + z (\alpha)) $$
Would that be the correct way to differentiate the integral or am I doing it completely wrong?

I hope I defined everything properly, if not just let me know.

Thanks a lot for your help!
I think that would be correct if Y is real-valued. If it is not, then I am not sure that ##\frac d {dY} Re(g(Y)) = Re(\frac d {dY} g(Y))##.
 
tnich said:
I think that would be correct if Y is real-valued. If it is not, then I am not sure that ##\frac d {dY} Re(g(Y)) = Re(\frac d {dY} g(Y))##.
I seem to be wrong about that. It looks to me like it works for complex values of Y, also.
 
Y is real valued.
So my derivative should be correct like I did it?
And thanks for your help!
 
shardur said:
Y is real valued.
So my derivative should be correct like I did it?
And thanks for your help!
It looks right to me. You can simplify it a little if you realize that ##exp(i \alpha (b + ln(Y)) - u) = Y^{i \alpha}exp(i \alpha b - u)##
 
tnich said:
It looks right to me. You can simplify it a little if you realize that ##exp(i \alpha (b + ln(Y)) - u) = Y^{i \alpha}exp(i \alpha b - u)##
One other thing that is good to know about differentiating integrals is what to do if the variable of differentiation appears in the limits of the integral as well as in the integrand. If you have an integral that looks like this
$$F(y) = \int_{g(y)}^{h(y)}f(y,x)~dx$$
and you want to differentiate with respect to y, then you get
$$\frac {dF(y)} {dy} = f(y,h(y))\frac {dh(y)} {dy}-f(y,g(y))\frac {dg(y)} {dy}+\int_{g(y)}^{h(y)}\frac{df(y,x)}{dy}~dx$$
That is, you need to differentiate with respect to all of the occurrences of y in the integral.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K