How is eq. 1.5.3 written using three-vectors and how does it lead to eq. 1.5.4?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the transition from equation 1.5.3 to equation 1.5.4 in the context of special relativity, specifically focusing on the representation of these equations using three-vectors. Participants explore the assumptions and implications of these equations, as well as the methods for deriving one from the other.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation, Conceptual clarification, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about how equation 1.5.3 is rewritten using three-vectors to derive equation 1.5.4.
  • Another participant argues that the two equations are not equivalent, noting that 1.5.3 assumes a specific form for ##\vec{\beta}_v##, while 1.5.4 does not make this assumption.
  • A different perspective suggests that a plausibility argument can be made by considering the components of ##\vec{\bar\beta}_w## in relation to ##\vec{\beta}_v##, indicating how these components contribute to the formulation of 1.5.4.
  • One participant proposes starting with four velocities to derive 1.5.4 rather than relying on 1.5.3, suggesting a different approach to the problem.
  • Another participant emphasizes the importance of calculating the three-velocity ##\vec{w}## under specific conditions and discusses the transformation properties of three-vectors under rotations, asserting that the covariant form of 1.5.3 should hold in general if it is valid in special cases.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between equations 1.5.3 and 1.5.4, with no consensus reached on whether they are equivalent or how best to derive one from the other.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions regarding the forms of the vectors and the conditions under which the equations hold are not fully explored, leaving open questions about the derivation process and the implications of the assumptions made.

SwetS
Messages
1
Reaction score
0

Attachments

  • Screenshot (94).png
    Screenshot (94).png
    35.6 KB · Views: 111
Physics news on Phys.org
The two expressions aren't the same, I think. 1.5.3 assumes that ##\vec{\beta}_v=(\beta_v,0,0)^T##, while 1.5.4 makes no such assumption. You could just plug this assumption into 1.5.4 as a plausibility check. If you actually need to derive 1.5.4 then I'd start with four velocities and work from there, not from 1.5.3.

@vanhees71 might add more detail.
 
A slightly better plausibility argument is to argue that ##(\beta_v+\bar{\beta}_w^1,\bar\beta_w^2/\gamma_v,\bar\beta_w^3/\gamma_v)^T## could be said to be ##\vec\beta_v## plus the component of ##\vec{\bar\beta}_w## parallel to ##\vec\beta_v## plus ##1/\gamma_v## times the component of ##\vec{\bar\beta}_w## perpendicular to ##\vec\beta_v##.

The vector times the dot product in the last term in brackets in 1.5.4 pulls out the component of ##\vec{\bar\beta}_w## parallel to ##\vec\beta_v##, which is then added/subtracted appropriately to get what I wrote in words above.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: SwetS
The idea is to calculate the three-velocity ##\vec{w}## first for the simplifying case that ##\vec{v}=v \vec{e}_1##. Then one makes use of the fact that ##\vec{w}=\vec{W}/W^0## is a "three-vector", i.e., it transforms under rotations as a three-vector, and thus one can get the expression for an arbitrary ##\vec{v}## by writing (1.5.2) in a form that is kovariant under rotations; you can indeed check that when setting ##\vec{v}=v \vec{e}_1## in (1.5.3) you get back (1.5.2). Since (1.5.3) is written in a kovariant form under rotations, it must be correct for the general case, if it's correct for the special case.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: SwetS and Ibix

Similar threads

  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 24 ·
Replies
24
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 42 ·
2
Replies
42
Views
7K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
4K
Replies
17
Views
2K