How many atoms are in a given mass of metal?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around determining the number of atoms in metal cubes based on their mass. Participants explore the use of Avogadro's number and atomic mass in this context, considering the implications of atomic packing and the nature of the metals involved.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Adam questions whether Avogadro's number assumes uniform atomic packing across different metals and seeks clarification on how to calculate the number of atoms in his samples.
  • Some participants suggest using atomic mass and Avogadro's number to find the number of atoms, indicating that mass of the cube divided by mass of an atom could yield the answer.
  • One participant notes that packing affects volume but not the calculation of atoms, emphasizing the use of atomic mass values and Avogadro's number.
  • Another participant asks for additional information about the metal samples, such as their identity, to provide a more accurate approach to the problem.
  • There is a suggestion that the question needs to be specified more completely, particularly regarding the nature of solids versus gases in relation to Avogadro's number.
  • One participant asserts that the packaging of atoms is irrelevant to the application of Avogadro's number, which is defined as the number of particles in one mole.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relevance of atomic packing to the use of Avogadro's number, indicating a lack of consensus on this aspect of the discussion. Some agree on the use of atomic mass and Avogadro's number, while others question the assumptions involved.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved questions regarding the assumptions about atomic packing and the specific details of the metal samples that may affect the calculations.

Jetstream
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TL;DR
I have some metal samples pure(ish) and want to know the number of atoms in each sample.
Hi all,

This may be simple chemistry, but I haven’t engaged this topic for a very long time.

I have an experiment where I need to measure the masses of some elemental (99%pure) metal cubes and I also want to know how many atoms of each element there are within them.

From memory, Avogadro’s number would be used, but from my understanding, does it not assume the same form of atomic packing in each metal sample?

How can I figure out the number of atoms in each metal sample cube?

Regards,
Adam
 
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Jetstream said:
Summary:: I have some metal samples pure(ish) and want to know the number of atoms in each sample.

Hi all,

This may be simple chemistry, but I haven’t engaged this topic for a very long time.

I have an experiment where I need to measure the masses of some elemental (99%pure) metal cubes and I also want to know how many atoms of each element there are within them.

From memory, Avogadro’s number would be used, but from my understanding, does it not assume the same form of atomic packing in each metal sample?

How can I figure out the number of atoms in each metal sample cube?

Regards,
Adam
Welcome to PF. :smile:

It's been a long time for me too working this kind of problem, but I think I would use the concept of atomic mass:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_mass
 
Mass of cube / mass of atom would give you an answer.
 
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Jetstream, any packing would only affect volume. Your question does not go into density nor volume. You will use atomic mass values and Avogadro's Number.
 
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Jetstream said:
How can I figure out the number of atoms in each metal sample cube?
What information do you have to start with? You say you will measure the masses of each cube, but what else do you know? Do you know what kind of metal each cube is made of, or are you supposed to figure that out too?
 
Moderator's note: Some off topic posts have been deleted.
 
PeterDonis said:
What information do you have to start with?
Yes. That's essential to know. If you know the element then you can easily find out the atomic mass (tables of chemical elements). The number of atoms is like the sweets in a jar.
symbolipoint said:
You will use atomic mass values and Avogadro's Number.
I think that wouldn't be necessary (see above). You can use Avogadro for the mass of a given volume of gas (converted for STP) because a Mole of gas at STP takes up 22.4l of volume. (remembered from school but I think it's right.) But solids pack differently.

Question needs to be specified more completely I think.
 
We teach that Avogadro # is the number of particles in 1 mole. How it is packaged is irrelevant.
 
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