How many students advanced to the next round?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a math contest problem involving 100 students and their performance on four questions. Participants explore how to determine the minimum number of students who advanced to the next round based on their correct answers, with a focus on various strategies for solving the problem and analyzing the constraints involved.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks general guidance on solving the problem, noting that at least 3 correct answers are needed to advance.
  • Another participant questions the maximum number of students who can miss at least two questions.
  • Some participants suggest finding upper and lower bounds as a strategy, emphasizing the importance of analyzing both passing and failing scenarios.
  • A participant proposes a distribution of correct answers that minimizes the number of students advancing, claiming that 38 students can advance under certain conditions.
  • Another participant confirms the existence of a distribution that allows for 38 students to advance, providing specific arrangements of correct answers among students.
  • One participant expresses doubt about the simplicity of the problem, noting the complexity of variables and constraints involved.
  • Another participant asserts that there are 125 wrong answers, suggesting that the least number of students who can advance is 38 based on this information.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that 38 is a lower bound for the number of students advancing, but there is no consensus on whether this is the optimal solution or how to definitively prove it. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach to fully solve the problem.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the complexity of the problem, mentioning multiple variables and constraints that complicate finding a definitive solution. There is also uncertainty regarding the distribution of correct answers and how it affects the number of students advancing.

jb235711
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Can someone give me general guidance on how to solve this problem (it's not homework):
There were 100 students taking a math contest consisting of four questions. 90 of them got problem 1 correct. 85 of them got problem 2 correct. 60 of them got problem 3 correct. 40 of them got problem 4 correct. Anyone who got 3 or more problems correct advanced to the next round. At least how many students advanced to the next round?
 
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What's the largest number who can miss at least two?
 
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There is no general method for finding the optimal solution to problems of this type, however a good start is often to find an upper and/or lower bound. It is also usually a good idea to look at both sides of the data - the question is phrased in terms of passing by getting at least 3 questions right; try looking at the number that fail by getting 2 questions wrong. How many questions are answered wrong overall?
 
Thanks for your helps. I got it. There are 275 right answers. Each student gets two right answers. The remaining 75 are distributed so that the number that pass is minimized, 2 question to 37 students and the remaining question to the 38th student.
 
jb235711 said:
Thanks for your helps. I got it. There are 275 right answers. Each student gets two right answers. The remaining 75 are distributed so that the number that pass is minimized, 2 question to 37 students and the remaining question to the 38th student.

Is this a solution, have you checked that it satisfies the constraints?

I was definitely thinking there wasn't an easy way to solve this.
 
I totally thought there was no easy solution and started doing inclusion-exclusion and stuff, but apparently it is easy. And I double checked that there exists a distribution satisfying 38 students advancing i.e 37 students get 4 right, 1 student gets 3 right and 62 students get 2 right. You can also do 38 students get 4 right, 61 students get 2 right, and 1 student gets 1 right which doesn't change the number of students that advance. From these arrangements you can verify case by case e.g. taking a right answer from a student that has four correct and giving it to a student that has 2 correct will increase the number advancing, and so forth.
 
To prove that this is an optimal solution you need to answer my question - how many questions are answered incorrectly?
 
... from which you can get the answer to Bystander's question
 
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  • #10
I'm bowing out of this question. When I look at it, I see a problem with 16 variables and 5 constraints, and as much as I try to convince myself that it is actually is easy, something niggles at me saying, nah, it's not.

I agree with the analysis that says 38 is a lower bound. I still struggle to show that it is a solution. I'm good at puzzles but this has me stumped. So best of luck to those who can solve it.
 
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  • #11
MrAnchovy said:
To prove that this is an optimal solution you need to answer my question - how many questions are answered incorrectly?
Yes, there are 125 wrong answers, so the most you can fail is 62, so the least that can advance is 38.
 
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