How many types of protons? (^1 H NMR)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around identifying the types of protons in two organic compounds as part of a homework problem related to proton NMR (Nuclear Magnetic Resonance) spectroscopy. Participants explore the implications of molecular structure and electronic effects on proton environments.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • The first compound is analyzed for unique proton environments, with the original poster suggesting there are seven types of protons, while questioning the influence of oxygen on shielding.
  • The second compound is critiqued for potentially being impossible due to octet rule violations, with the original poster identifying two types of protons but noting a discrepancy with the solutions manual, which claims four types.
  • One participant points out that shielding effects are not limited to oxygen and emphasizes the importance of considering the entire molecular structure.
  • Another participant introduces the concept of esters, suggesting that understanding this functional group may clarify the structural issues raised.
  • There is a discussion about the "D" hydrogens in the first compound, with uncertainty expressed regarding their equivalence due to their neighboring hydrogen environments.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the number of unique proton types in both compounds, with no consensus reached. The original poster's interpretations conflict with the solutions manual, and there is ongoing debate about the effects of molecular structure on NMR results.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge limitations in their understanding of NMR and the structural implications of functional groups like esters. There are unresolved questions regarding the equivalence of certain protons and the influence of electron-withdrawing groups on shielding.

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Homework Statement


How many types of protons are present?



Homework Equations




compound 1:

CH3CH2OCH2CH2CH2CH2CH3

and

compound 2:

CH3CH2CO2CH2CH3

The Attempt at a Solution



Compound 1:

Arbitrarily assigning hydrogens which see a unique environment, left to right as appropriate.

CH3(A)CH2(B)OCH2(C)CH2(D)CH2(D)CH2(E)CH3(A)

My solutions manual claims that there are seven types of 1H in this molecule. I was under the impression that the high electron affinity of the oxygen will only deshield atoms ~1 sigma bond away. Is this impression false?

Compound 2:

First of all, this structural formula appears to me to describe an impossible molecule. Neither O atom has enough bonds to satisfy their "octet", yet to meet this criteria would require an isomer.

Moreover, even if I draw this out as described, using the method above:

CH3(A)CH2(B)CO2CH2(B)CH3(A)

Noting the symmetry of the molecule, I see two types of 1H, but my solutions manual claims four.

Where am I going wrong?
 
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1 - it is not only oxygen that changes shielding, you have to look at the other end - and clearly -CH3 is different form -C5H11

2 - have you ever heard about esters?
 
Thank you for the hint on looking at esters--we've only just scratched carboxylic/carbonyls. But drawing it in ester form makes sense.

re #1:

It's not clear to me why the "D" hydrogens aren't the same. All of the "D" hydrogens each "see" four hydrogens on adjacent carbons across the C-C sigma bond.
 
They are very similar, but NMR is not about only the closest proximity (although the closest is the most important).
 

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