How Many Zeros Are Inside the Unit Disk for f(z) = 3z^621 - e^z?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on determining the number of zeros of the function f(z) = 3z^621 - e^z within the unit disk. Participants explore various mathematical approaches, including the argument principle and contour integration, while encountering challenges in evaluating the necessary integrals.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant poses the initial question about the number of zeros of f(z) within the unit disk and mentions the argument principle as a potential method.
  • Another participant expresses difficulty in evaluating the integral of f'(z)/f(z) and seeks clarification on where the trouble lies.
  • It is noted that f'(z)/f(z) can be expressed as (1863*z^620 - e^z) / (3*z^621 - e^z), leading to a discussion on integrating this expression along a contour.
  • Some participants suggest that the argument principle may not be the best approach for this problem.
  • One participant shares insights from plotting the function, suggesting that it appears to have n zeros in the unit disk and relates this to the behavior of zn - 1.
  • Another participant references Rouche's theorem, proposing that |3zn - ez| can be majorized by |7*z^n| on the unit circle, implying a conclusion about the number of zeros.
  • A later reply discusses complications related to the contour integral, specifically the behavior of the integrand wrapping around the origin multiple times and crossing a branch cut.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the best method to solve the problem, with some supporting the use of the argument principle and others questioning its applicability. There is no consensus on a definitive solution or approach.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the complexity of evaluating the contour integral due to the behavior of the integrand and the presence of branch cuts, which complicates straightforward calculations.

NoDoubts
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How many zeros inside the unit disk does the following function have?

f(z) = 3 z^621 - e^z. (in words, three times z to the power 621 minus e^z :)

...argument principle answers this question, but I have a problem evaluating the integral of
f'(z)/f(z).
 
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In general,
[tex]\frac{d}{dz} \ln f(z) = \frac{f'(z)}{f(z)}.[/tex]
 
NoDoubts said:
but I have a problem evaluating the integral of
f'(z)/f(z).
Where, exactly, are you having trouble?
 
adriank said:
In general,
[tex]\frac{d}{dz} \ln f(z) = \frac{f'(z)}{f(z)}.[/tex]

sure. and how does it help?
 
Hurkyl said:
Where, exactly, are you having trouble?

well, f'(z)/f(z) = (1863*z^620 - e^z}) / (3*z^621 - e^z).

Now, we need to integrate that along the contour C. I've tried to integrate it directly by setting z = e^{theta*i) where 0 < theta <= 2pi , but got stuck.
 
anyone?
 
adriank said:
In general,
[tex]\frac{d}{dz} \ln f(z) = \frac{f'(z)}{f(z)}.[/tex]

I thought this was hint enough. An antiderivative of [tex]f'(z)/f(z)[/tex] is [tex]\ln f(z) = \ln(3z^{621} - e^z)[/tex].

Am I missing something?
 
  • #10
Maybe the argument principle isn't what you should be using?
 
  • #11
do you know how else I can solve this problem?
 
  • #12
I cheated a bit and made some plots, but it looks like 3zn - ez has n zeros in the unit disk, and they look like they're nearish to the zeros of zn - 1. It looks like you have to use the fact that e < 3, since replacing the constant 3 with any number greater than e gives the same number of zeros. If you replace it with e, then you get a zero at z = 1.
 
  • #13
  • #14
Looks like that does it. :)

I just started taking a complex analysis course, so unfortunately I'm not very well-informed with regards to that stuff. Glad you solved it, though.
 
  • #15
cheers. now I can move on relieved :)
 
  • #16
For the record, adriank's earlier hint would have let you directly compute the contour integral... except for the sticky problem that the value of the integrand wraps around the origin (621 times!), and thus must cross a branch cut (621 times), so the straightforward thing wouldn't work.

Of course, if you could prove that it wraps around the origin exactly 621 times, and thus crosses the branch cut 621 times, you could take advantage of the fact you know exactly how big the discontinuity is, and so you still could make a direct calculation of the contour integral.
 

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