How to balance chemical equations with multiple elements?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the methods for balancing chemical equations involving multiple elements, specifically focusing on examples with calcium phosphate and magnesium phosphate reactions. Participants explore various strategies and approaches for achieving balance in chemical equations, including the use of coefficients and mathematical equations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses difficulty in balancing equations, noting that balancing one element often leads to another becoming unbalanced.
  • Another participant suggests starting with elements that appear in only one compound, typically leading to balancing C, H, and O last.
  • A method is proposed involving setting coefficients for each compound and creating equations based on the number of atoms for each element involved.
  • Concerns are raised about the clarity of the proposed equations, particularly regarding the treatment of phosphate groups versus individual phosphorus and oxygen atoms.
  • One participant emphasizes the importance of adjusting coefficients based on the number of atoms present in the compounds to achieve balance.
  • There is a mention of a potential typo in the equations provided, indicating a need for careful attention to detail in mathematical representations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants present multiple competing views on the best approach to balancing chemical equations, with no consensus reached on a single method. Some participants agree on starting with certain elements, while others question the reasoning behind specific choices in the equations.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved questions regarding the treatment of phosphate groups in the balancing process, as well as potential typographical errors in the equations presented. The discussion reflects varying levels of understanding and approaches to the problem.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students and individuals seeking to understand different methods for balancing chemical equations, particularly in the context of complex reactions involving multiple elements.

transgalactic
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[itex] <br /> Ca_3(PO_4)_2 + H_3PO_4 -> Ca(H_2PO_4)_2 [/itex]i got the same problem with this one
[itex] MgO + H_3PO_4 -> Mg_3(PO_4)_2 + H_2O[/itex]
each time i balance one element i get the other which i balance before
to be dis balanced

what is the general way of solving such things
??
 
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I suggest starting with the elements that only occur in one part, usually you end with C, H and O because they occur most.
For example, for the first one,
a Ca3(PO4)2) + b H3PO4 -> c Ca (H2 PO4)2

First start with setting a = 1. You only have Ca in one element on the left, so you need c = 3 to get the amount of Ca on the right correctly. Then you have also fixed an amount of PO4 on both sides, and you will have to use b to compensate that. Then you have used all your freedom, so the H should automatically be balanced (if not, the reaction is not possible). Finally, check if you have fractions somewhere, and multiply through by some number to get integers everywhere.

If you are more mathematically inclined, you can write down a set of equations:
For Ca: 3a = c
For PO4: 2a + b = 2
For H: 3b = 4c
and solve that. Afterwards, again multiply a, b and c by some number to get rid of possible fractions (e.g. if you find a = 1, b = 1/2 and c = 1/5 multiply by 10 and use a = 10, b = 5, c = 2).
 
CompuChip said:
I suggest starting with the elements that only occur in one part, usually you end with C, H and O because they occur most.
For example, for the first one,
a Ca3(PO4)2) + b H3PO4 -> c Ca (H2 PO4)2

First start with setting a = 1. You only have Ca in one element on the left, so you need c = 3 to get the amount of Ca on the right correctly. Then you have also fixed an amount of PO4 on both sides, and you will have to use b to compensate that. Then you have used all your freedom, so the H should automatically be balanced (if not, the reaction is not possible). Finally, check if you have fractions somewhere, and multiply through by some number to get integers everywhere.

If you are more mathematically inclined, you can write down a set of equations:
For Ca: 3a = c
For PO4: 2a + b = 2
For H: 3b = 4c
and solve that. Afterwards, again multiply a, b and c by some number to get rid of possible fractions (e.g. if you find a = 1, b = 1/2 and c = 1/5 multiply by 10 and use a = 10, b = 5, c = 2).

i can't see how you get this equations..
why you put po4 as one instead doing for "p" ad oxiden
why in the second one you have only 2
 
transgalactic, CompuChip is trying to generalize your first example and used a , b, and c as counting variables (or coefficients?) for each compound.

Myself, starting in your Ca example, I would start with the Ca atoms first. The compound on the leftside has 3 Ca atoms, so you probably want 3 Ca atoms on the rightside. How many calcium dihydrogenphosphates would you need on the rightside? You would best pick 3 of these. Next, account for the phosphorus atoms. Do you have the same number of atoms of phosphorus on both sides? If not, then you have another adjustment to make. WORK WITH IT!
 
transgalactic said:
why you put po4 as one instead doing for "p" ad oxiden

Becasue they are always combined in the same way. You will have two linearly dependent equations - no new information, more places to make a mistake.

why in the second one you have only 2

Must be a typo, shoud be 2c.
 

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