How to calculate the solid angle subtended by an off axis disk

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the solid angle subtended by an off-axis disk, a topic that appears to lack comprehensive resources. Participants explore various methods and mathematical formulations, particularly focusing on elliptic integrals and their application in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses difficulty in understanding the tutorial on calculating the solid angle and seeks clarification, particularly for an off-axis disk scenario.
  • Another participant explains that elliptic integrals do not have analytic solutions and suggests numeric integration as a method for calculation.
  • There is a discussion about the definitions of R1 and Rmax, with one participant suggesting that R1 is the minimum distance from the source to the disk's perimeter.
  • Some participants question whether there is a simpler method to calculate the solid angle without using elliptic integrals, expressing frustration over the complexity of the problem.
  • One participant argues that the solid angle should remain the same for a flat disk and a spherical cap, prompting further clarification on the differences between these geometries.
  • Concerns are raised about MATLAB's capabilities in computing certain elliptic integrals, with participants discussing potential workarounds and the importance of understanding the underlying mathematics for academic purposes.
  • There is a request for a simplified explanation of the mathematical processes involved in using elliptic integrals, indicating a gap in understanding among participants.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the complexity of the problem and the necessity of elliptic integrals for accurate calculations. However, there is no consensus on whether simpler methods exist, and the discussion includes competing views on the implications of using different geometrical models.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty regarding the definitions and calculations of R1 and Rmax, as well as the applicability of elliptic integrals in this context. There are unresolved questions about the relationship between flat disks and spherical caps in terms of solid angle calculations.

CraigH
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Hi,
It's surprising how little information is available on this topic, considering it seems like such a fundamental problem. The only tutorial I have found is http://www.umich.edu/~ners312/Course%20Library/SolidAngleOfADiskOffAxis.pdf, and my university does not have access to the other papers on the topic.

I'm finding it really difficult to understand this tutorial, so I would really appreciate it if someone could help explain how to do this calculation. It's probably best explaining this question with an example. See the picture bellow:

http://imageshack.us/a/img824/2072/tfw0.jpg

In the first example the source is directly above the disk. The solid angle is the area intersected by the cone and a unit sphere centered around the source, so for this example the calculation is easy. The area intersected (and hence the solid angle) will be the area of the disk divided by the square of the distance between the source and the disk. So if the source is 20m above a 5m radius disk, it will subtend an angle of ∏/16

\frac{\pi*5^{2}}{20^{2}} = \frac{\pi}{16}

In the second example the source lies on the plane of the disk. This is also easy to calculate; it subtends an angle of 0∏.

The third example is where I am having difficulties. Because it is off axis it will have a smaller angle subtended, even if the distance is the same. So if the source is 20m away from the center of the 5m radius disk, and it is ∏/4 radians counterclockwise from the y-axis (the vertical axis coming out of the plane) , and 3∏/8 radians counterclockwise from the z axis (the horizontal axis going into the screen), what angle does it subtend the disk?

Here's my attempt so far

If I try and follow the tutorial I posted it seems like there is a lot of steps. First I have to check whether or not the source lies outside the perimeter of the disk. It does, so the formula to find the solid angle is:

Ω = - \frac{2L}{R_{max}}K(k) + \pi\Lambda_{0}(\xi,k)

where:

L = the perpendicular height of the source above the plane of the disk.
R max = the maximum distance between the source and a point on the perimiter of the disk.
K(k) = Legendre's form of a complete elliptic integral of the first kind. K is a function and k is the argument.
k = square root of (1 - (R1^2)/(R max ^2)).
R1 = ? I can't work this out
lambda 0 (xi,k) = Heuman lambda function
xi = arcsin (L/R1)

This is all I can deduce from the tutorial. However I can not work out what R1 is, and I do not know how to do the elliptic integrals. The tutorial references the handbook "elliptic integrals for engineers and scientists" which I have a copy of, however this is even more difficult than the original tutorial.

I have looked online and found that

K(k) = \int^{\pi/2}_{0}\frac{1}{\sqrt{1-k^{2}sin^{2}(t)}}dt

But I do not know what t is, or how to calculate this integral.

I have also found that

\Lambda_{0}(\xi,k) = \frac{2}{\pi} (E(k) F(\xi,k') - K(k) E(\xi,k') + K(k) F(\xi,k'))

where:

F(xi,k') = incomplete elliptic integral of the first kind
E(k) = complete elliptic integral of the second kind

I also have formulas for these which I found online, but like the first elliptic integral, I do not know how to calculate them.Even though I have posted a lot of information here I understand very little of it, it may be completlely wrong. It also looks very complicated, is there an easier way? I just want to know how to find the solid angle subtended by an off axis disk. I don't even care that much if I do not understand where the calculations have come from, at this point I just want to be able to do them. I'd also like to point out that once I know how to do them I plan on coding a MATLAB function that will calculate them for me.

So please, can somebody tell me how I find this angle?

Thankyou very much!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
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Elliptic integrals are written as integrals as there is no analytic solution for them. You'll have to do numeric integration or some other approximation method.

t is the integration variable in the integral. It runs from 0 to pi/2.

R1 is the "opposite" of Rmax, it is the distance between source and the closest point of the ellipse.Unrelated to the main problem: Keep in mind that your first method (source directly above the disk) is just an approximation, as the disk is not a part of the sphere.
 
Thanks for your answer mfb, I had a feeling R1 would be Rmin.

mfb said:
Elliptic integrals are written as integrals as there is no analytic solution for them. You'll have to do numeric integration or some other approximation method.

Is there a way to calculate the angle without using elliptic integrals then? It seems like such a fundamental problem, I thought there would be an easier way of calculating it.
mfb said:
Unrelated to the main problem: Keep in mind that your first method (source directly above the disk) is just an approximation, as the disk is not a part of the sphere.

I thought that this would not matter, as the solid angle would be the same if the disk is flat, or if it is a spherical cap, with the apex directly below the source. I'll demonstrate this with a picture:

http://imageshack.us/a/img163/7997/m7dl.jpg

In this picture the disk inside the white sphere will subtend the same angle as the spherical cap that makes up part of the white sphere.

http://imageshack.us/a/img594/5498/6etp.jpg

The purple sphere is the unit sphere. The area that the blue cone intersects with the purple sphere is the solid angle.

Is this not correct?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
CraigH said:
Is there a way to calculate the angle without using elliptic integrals then?
If you find one, publish it ;).
Elliptic integrals are not used because it is fun, they are used when no easier solution is known.

It seems like such a fundamental problem, I thought there would be an easier way of calculating it.
Easy problems can have complicated solutions (the arc length of an ellipse is another example for elliptic integrals).

I thought that this would not matter, as the solid angle would be the same if the disk is flat, or if it is a spherical cap, with the apex directly below the source. I'll demonstrate this with a picture:
The surface area of the cap (on the curved part) is not the area of the disk. You assume both to be the same.
 
I've found out that MATLAB will compute the complete elliptic integrals of the first and second kind, but it cannot compute the http://www.mathworks.co.uk/help/symbolic/mupad_ref/ellipticf.html, which is needed for the heuman lambda function.

Is there anyway around this problem?

Also, since I've now resorted to using built in MATLAB functions I should probably have some basic understanding of what I'm actually doing otherwise i'll have no chance in my viva voce exam. Can you please give me a really basic explanation of what I'm doing when I put a number (M) into the function? Also, why am I doing an elliptic integral in the first place, how does this help compute the solid angle?

Thank you very much!
 
CraigH said:
Is there anyway around this problem?
You can try to let Matlab evaluate those integrals directly.

Also, since I've now resorted to using built in MATLAB functions I should probably have some basic understanding of what I'm actually doing otherwise i'll have no chance in my viva voce exam. Can you please give me a really basic explanation of what I'm doing when I put a number (M) into the function?
Is the question as basic as it looks like?
Like, what happens if you put a value for x into f(x)=x^2?

Also, why am I doing an elliptic integral in the first place, how does this help compute the solid angle?
How does adding 2 and 2 help to compute the sum of 2 and 2?
Sorry I don't understand how that can be unclear. The description you linked derived the solid angle, and those elliptic integrals are part of the result.
 
Sorry I should have been more clear with my question. The description I linked is way beyond my maths ability, so I'm asking for a brief overview of what that description is trying to say. The description is very detailed and technical, I've read it 100 times and googled and researched everything to try and understand it, but it is beyond me. I'm hoping that there is a simpler explanation of what that paper is trying to say.

When I type into matlab:

[K,E]=ellipke(0.0796)

it returns

K =

1.6035


E =

1.5391

But what do these numbers mean? I find it strange that I put in a number and it outputs two numbers. Usually with integration you put in an equation and it outputs a different equation.

I'm just really worried that in my viva voce exam I will be asked how I calculated the solid angles, and my answer will just be, "I got MATLAB to do it for me". They will probably ask why I did it the way I did it and I won't know. I'm blindly following the instructions in the link I posted because I don't understand them.

If I understood the description I posted in the link I would be fine, but I don't. So I guess this is my question: Could you please explain the derivation of the solid angle calculation for a circular disk to me like I'm five years old?

I can see that I'm asking quite a hard question here. It doesn't need to be a good explanation, could you please just give it your best shot? I would massively appreciate it.
 
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But what do these numbers mean?
Matlab calculates two different functions at the same time. One for K, one for E.

I'm just really worried that in my viva voce exam I will be asked how I calculated the solid angles
If it is not the main result of your work (!), the derivation looks too complicated to explain it in an exam. "I used the method of F. Paxton, see [reference], the result is [formulas], and implemented those formulas in Matlab" should be fine.

Could you please explain the derivation of the solid angle calculation for a circular disk to me like I'm five years old?
I don't think that is possible.
 
mfb said:
If it is not the main result of your work (!), the derivation looks too complicated to explain it in an exam. "I used the method of F. Paxton, see [reference], the result is [formulas], and implemented those formulas in Matlab" should be fine.

Okay, yeah that sounds pretty reasonable. This is actually a really small part of a much bigger project. I've got a little bit distracted by it though.

mfb said:
I don't think that is possible.

Aha, I thought that might be the case.

Thanks for your time!
 

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