How to count the degree of freedom?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around counting the degrees of freedom in ADM gravity, particularly focusing on the relationship between independent components, phase space variables, and constraints. Participants explore the implications of constraints on the degrees of freedom in both classical and quantum contexts.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that there are 6 independent components of q_{ab} and 4 constraints, leading to 2 degrees of freedom, while another argues that this should imply 12 phase space variables and thus 4 degrees of freedom after accounting for constraints.
  • Another participant raises a question about the deduction of degrees of freedom from constraints, suggesting that only 4 phase space variables become dependent on each other due to the constraints.
  • A later reply elaborates on the Hamiltonian formulation, stating that the canonical variables q_ab and p_ab yield 12 local degrees of freedom, with 4 constraints leaving 8, but also introduces lapse and shift variables that lead to 4 gauge transformations, ultimately suggesting that 4 local degrees of freedom remain relevant.
  • Further clarification is provided regarding the counting of degrees of freedom in different spacetime dimensions, indicating that in general, the formula for phase space variables is D(D+1) minus constraints and gauge transformations.
  • One participant discusses the implications of first-class constraints in quantum mechanics, noting that the wavefunction depends on configuration space rather than phase space, which relates to the conditions imposed by the constraints.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on how to count degrees of freedom in the context of constraints, with no consensus reached on the correct interpretation or methodology. Multiple competing views remain regarding the relationship between phase space variables and constraints.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity of the relationship between constraints and degrees of freedom, with discussions involving gauge transformations and the implications of first-class constraints in quantum mechanics. The discussion remains nuanced and unresolved regarding the exact counting of degrees of freedom.

kakarukeys
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Please tell me how to count the degree of freedom in ADM gravity.

6 independent components of q_{ab},
and 4 constraints
= 2 degrees of freedom

shouldn't it be
6 independent components of q_{ab}
implies 12 phase space variables
4 constraints
=8 phase space variables
=4 degrees of freedom?
 
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Convention. How many degrees of freedom does a particle on a line have? one, but two phase space variables.
 
I asked why 4 constraints mean 4 degrees of freedom are deducted? (that's 8 phase space variables!) It seems only 4 phase space variables become dependent on each other by 4 constraints.
 
kakarukeys said:
I asked why 4 constraints mean 4 degrees of freedom are deducted? (that's 8 phase space variables!) It seems only 4 phase space variables become dependent on each other by 4 constraints.
Hi, in the Hamiltonian formulation one has the canonical variables q_ab and p_ab which determine 12 local degrees of freedom and have to satisfy 4 constraints, so 8 remain. However, one has to take into account the lapse and shift variables (originating from the choice of foliation). Those - contracted with the constraints - generate 4 gauge transformations which correspond with the lie derivative of those phase space variables which satisfy the constraints in the direction of the associated vectorfield. Since the dirac algebra closes, no further constraints arise and therefore 8 - 4 = 4 (vectorfields determine 4 local degrees of freedom) local phase space variables are relevant. Note that in three spacetime dimensions, the counting would be 3+3 = 6 phase space variables satisfying 3 constraints and 3 gauge transformations -> gravity is topological. In general, for a D+1 dimensional spacetime : D(D+1) phase space variables - 2(D+1) coming from constraints and gauge trans = (D-2)(D+1) phase space variables.

At the level of the spacetime metric (Lagrangian viewpoint) : you have (D+1)(D+2)/2 local degrees of freedom. Now, (D+1) degrees of freedom are pure tensorial, that means dependent upon choice of a local coordinate system. Once you have chosen one particular system, you still have the active diffeomorphism freedom: that is you can consider mappings shifting up spacetime points, these represent again D+1 local degrees of freedom. In total (D+1)(D+2)/2 - 2(D+1) = (D+1)(D-2)/2. In four d, these are the so called 2 graviton degrees of freedom. Since these obey hyperbolic (second order) partial differential equations, this results in 4 phase space variables.

Cheers,

Careful
 
Last edited:
A bit more abstractly then Careful's answer:

kakarukeys said:
I asked why 4 constraints mean 4 degrees of freedom are deducted? (that's 8 phase space variables!) It seems only 4 phase space variables become dependent on each other by 4 constraints.

Correct, but first class constraint means two things:
1: C = 0
2: {C, O} = 0

That's basically two unknowns, on the constraintsurface where condition one holds you ALSO have to compute gaugeorbits which imply condition 2.
The space of physical states is characterized by equivalence classes of points on the contstraint surface.

Quantum mechanically your wavefunction depends only on x not on p, it's on configuration space not phase space, and therefore implementing the first condition already implies the second one in some precisely definable sense.
 
:approve:
thank you.
 

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