How to Derive the Joule Coefficient at Constant Internal Energy?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around deriving the Joule Coefficient using thermodynamic relations, specifically focusing on the relationship between temperature, volume, and internal energy. The participants are exploring the mathematical formulation and implications of the Joule Coefficient in the context of thermodynamics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants are attempting to manipulate cyclic thermodynamic relations and express the Joule Coefficient in terms of other thermodynamic variables. There are questions about how to derive certain expressions and clarify definitions, particularly regarding the relationship between entropy and volume.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided guidance on how to approach the derivation, including suggestions to utilize Maxwell relations and clarify expressions. There is ongoing exploration of the relationships between various thermodynamic quantities, but no consensus has been reached on the final form of the Joule Coefficient.

Contextual Notes

Participants have noted potential typos in previous posts and are working through the implications of these corrections. There is also a recognition of the need for additional information or clarification regarding certain thermodynamic properties.

JorgeMC59
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Homework Statement


Using basic thermodynamic relations, show that the Joule Coefficient is given by:

Homework Equations


{\left(\partial T \over \partial V \right)_U}=-{T^2 \over C _v}{\partial \over \partial T} \left(P \over T \right)_V

The Attempt at a Solution


I started with the cyclic thermodynamic relation:
{\left( \partial T \over \partial V \right)_U \left( \partial V \over \partial U \right)_T \left (\partial U \over \partial T \right)_V}=-1
Rearranging the equation:
{\left( \partial T \over \partial V \right)_U}={-\left( \partial U \over \partial V \right)_T \left( \partial T \over \partial U \right)_V}
Knowing that: C_V= \left( \partial U \over \partial T \right)_V → {1 \over C_V}= \left( \partial T \over \partial U \right)_V I get:
{\left( \partial T \over \partial V \right)_U}={-{1 \over C_V} \left( \partial U \over \partial V \right)_T}
And from there I don't know how to continue.
I hope someone here can help me, thanks in advance.
 
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JorgeMC59 said:

Homework Statement


Using basic thermodynamic relations, show that the Joule Coefficient is given by:

Homework Equations


{\left(\partial T \over \partial V \right)_U}=-{T^2 \over C _v}{\partial \over \partial T} \left(P \over T \right)_V

The Attempt at a Solution


I started with the cyclic thermodynamic relation:
{\left( \partial T \over \partial V \right)_U \left( \partial V \over \partial U \right)_T \left (\partial U \over \partial T \right)_V}=-1
Rearranging the equation:
{\left( \partial T \over \partial V \right)_U}={-\left( \partial U \over \partial V \right)_T \left( \partial T \over \partial U \right)_V}
Knowing that: C_V= \left( \partial U \over \partial T \right)_V → {1 \over C_V}= \left( \partial T \over \partial U \right)_V I get:
{\left( \partial T \over \partial V \right)_U}={-{1 \over C_V} \left( \partial U \over \partial V \right)_T}
And from there I don't know how to continue.
I hope someone here can help me, thanks in advance.
You need to get (∂U/∂V)T. Start out with

dU = TdS-PdV

so

dU=T\left(\left(\frac{∂S}{∂T}\right)_VdT+\left(\frac{∂S}{∂V}\right)_TdV\right)-PdV=C_vdT+\left(T\left(\frac{∂S}{∂V}\right)_T-P\right)dV
So,
\left(\frac{∂U}{∂V}\right)_T=\left(T\left(\frac{∂S}{∂V}\right)_T-P\right)dV

Now, you need to make use of an appropriate Maxwell relation to get the partial of S with respect to V at constant T.

Chet
 
Chestermiller said:
You need to get (∂U/∂V)T. Start out with

dU = TdS-PdV

so

dU=T\left(\left(\frac{∂S}{∂T}\right)_VdT+\left(\frac{∂S}{∂V}\right)_TdV\right)-PdV=C_vdT+\left(T\left(\frac{∂S}{∂V}\right)_T-P\right)dV
So,
\left(\frac{∂U}{∂V}\right)_T=\left(T\left(\frac{∂S}{∂V}\right)_T-P\right)dV

Now, you need to make use of an appropriate Maxwell relation to get the partial of S with respect to V at constant T.

Chet

Thanks for your answer Chet, I used {\left( \partial S \over \partial V \right)_T}= {\left( \partial P \over \partial T \right)_V}

But now I'm stuck here: {\left(\partial T \over \partial V \right)_U}=-{1 \over C_V}{\left[ T {\left( \partial P \over \partial T \right)_V}-P \right]dV}

I suppose that somehow {\left[ T {\left( \partial P \over \partial T \right)_V}-P \right]dV}={T^2{\partial \over \partial T}\left( P \over T \right)} But I don't know how to get there.
 
JorgeMC59 said:
But now I'm stuck here: {\left(\partial T \over \partial V \right)_U}=-{1 \over C_V}{\left[ T {\left( \partial P \over \partial T \right)_V}-P \right]dV}
Note that there is a typo in Chet's post, such that there is no ##dV## here.

JorgeMC59 said:
I suppose that somehow {\left[ T {\left( \partial P \over \partial T \right)_V}-P \right]dV}={T^2{\partial \over \partial T}\left( P \over T \right)} But I don't know how to get there.
Correcting, you have to show that
\left[ T {\left( \partial P \over \partial T \right)_V}-P \right] = T^2{\partial \over \partial T}\left( P \over T \right)_V
Just apply the product rule on the right-hand-side.
 
DrClaude said:
Note that there is a typo in Chet's post, such that there is no ##dV## here.


Correcting, you have to show that
\left[ T {\left( \partial P \over \partial T \right)_V}-P \right] = T^2{\partial \over \partial T}\left( P \over T \right)_V
Just apply the product rule on the right-hand-side.
Thanks for spotting that typo Dr. C.

Chet
 
Thanks a lot, DrClaude and Chet your answers were of great help.
 

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