How to Derive the Lagrangian for a Charged Particle in a Coulomb Potential?

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves deriving the Lagrangian for a charged particle of mass m and charge q, which is influenced by a Coulomb potential from a fixed charge Q at the origin. The particle is said to be free to move in the horizontal (x, y) plane, and the goal is to express the Lagrangian and the equations of motion in Cartesian coordinates.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to derive the Lagrangian using the kinetic and potential energy expressions but questions whether their solution is correctly expressed in Cartesian coordinates.
  • Some participants suggest that the Lagrangian should incorporate both x and y components, given the context of motion in the (x, y) plane.
  • Others question the necessity of including the y component, interpreting the problem's wording about horizontal movement.
  • There is a discussion about the interpretation of "horizontal" and its implications for the motion in two dimensions.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants exploring different interpretations of the problem's constraints. Some guidance has been offered regarding the inclusion of both x and y coordinates in the Lagrangian, but there is no explicit consensus on the necessity of the y component.

Contextual Notes

Participants are navigating the implications of the problem statement, particularly regarding the movement constraints in the horizontal plane and how that affects the formulation of the Lagrangian.

vsharma88
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Homework Statement


A charged particle of mass m and charge q is free to move in the horizontal (x, y) plane, under
the influence of the Coulomb potential due to another charge Q that is fixed at the origin.

Find the Lagrangian and the differential equations of motion of the mass m, in terms of
Cartesian coordinates (x, y).


Homework Equations



dL/dqi - d/dt * dL/dq'i = 0
L = T - V
T = .5mv^2
V= KQq/r

The Attempt at a Solution



L = T - V

Langrangian = 0.5mx'^2 - KQq/x

dL/dx - d/dt * dL/dx' = 0
d/dx(-KQq/x) - d/dt * d/dx'(0.5mv^2)=0

-dV/dt - d/dt(mx')=0
Fx = mx''

Is this the right answer? The question asks for it to be in terms of the cartesian coordinates.
However, my answer isn't. Please Help.
 
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Your solution is schematically ok, if you are only working in one variable. Except you mean dV/dx, right? Now just do the same thing in two variables q1=x(t), q2=y(t). T=(1/2)mv^2=(1/2)m(x'(t)^2+y'(t)^2), V=KqQ/(x^2+y^2)^(1/2).
 
The question says that the charge can only move horizontally, so is it necessary to have the y component?
 
vsharma88 said:
The question says that the charge can only move horizontally, so is it necessary to have the y component?

You said it's constrained to move in the (x,y) plane, right? Not just along a line.
 
It says the charge is free to move in the horizontal (x,y) plane. Does that not mean it is only allowed to move horizontally?

A charged particle of mass m and charge q is free to move in the horizontal (x, y) plane, under
the influence of the Coulomb potential due to another charge Q that is fixed at the origin.
 
The entire xy plane is horizontal, the z-direction would be the vertical...think of it in terms of standing on a flat earth...you can move North, West, 22 degree East by South-East and In all of these cases you are moving in the horizontal plane...it is only if you were to jump up and down that you would be moving vertically...so yes, you need to consider both x and y in your Lagrangian
 

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