How to determine the rating of a capacitor for a specific purpose?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around determining the appropriate capacitance for a capacitor intended for use with a DC series motor, specifically in the context of controlling current and potentially enhancing motor acceleration. Participants explore various circuit configurations, including the role of capacitors and diodes, and the implications of energy storage in motor applications.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks guidance on connecting a capacitor in series with a DC motor to control current.
  • Another participant argues against connecting a capacitor in series with a DC motor, suggesting it would not function properly.
  • A participant mentions the presence of a diode in parallel with the capacitor and questions its intended function.
  • Concerns are raised about the adequacy of the provided schematic, with one participant suggesting it lacks detail for practical application.
  • Discussion includes the potential use of capacitors to increase motor acceleration, with one participant referencing a teammate's belief in this application.
  • Another participant emphasizes the importance of energy storage calculations based on mechanical factors such as speed and weight, suggesting that sizing capacitors depends on expected energy storage needs.
  • Questions arise regarding the energy consumption of the motor at different speeds, with one participant expressing uncertainty about the relationship between torque and power requirements.
  • One participant clarifies that the ultracapacitor's purpose is to store regenerative energy during braking and assist the battery during operation, indicating that its utility depends on the braking dynamics of the motor.
  • Participants discuss the possibility of overdriving a DC motor for short durations to achieve higher acceleration, while acknowledging limitations based on motor ratings.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the appropriate use of capacitors with DC motors, with some supporting their use for acceleration and others questioning their effectiveness in the proposed configuration. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the optimal approach to using capacitors in this context.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference a schematic and a presentation, but there are concerns about the completeness and clarity of these materials. The discussion highlights the complexity of energy storage and motor control, with various assumptions and conditions influencing the proposed solutions.

arkaddas
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I need to determine the capacitance for a capacitor that I will be connecting in series with a DC series motor to control the current drawn from the battery by the motor. How should I proceed?
I have attached the schematic.
 

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Hi arkaddas.

You don't connect a capacitor in series with a DC motor. It won't spin for very long if you do.
 
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There's a diode in parallel with the capacitor.

Actually I was searching for a way to increase the acceleration of the motor. According to me, the speed controller will determine that but my teammate insisted that capacitors are used to increase the acceleration of motors and he also found out a link that convinced me to give it a thought. I have attached the schematic.
 

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How will you turn the motor on and off? I have a feeling the "diode" you show is not really what you are looking for, the capacitor seems to be more of a snubber (absorbing energy as the motor is turned on and off) and the "diode" a switch?
 
I took the schematic from a presentation that was prepared by MIT students so I don't have doubts about it. However I cannot understand the function of this circuitry. Here's the link to the presentation :- http://web.mit.edu/first/kart/everpres.pdf
 
Well I certainly have doubts about the original schematic. The schematic now - is still really a block diagram and not complete enough to work with. This presentation is about using a Ultra-Cap for bulk energy storage in conjunction with batteries - since we are talking energy storage, typically the more the better, but you pay of it with size and weight. The later schematics - showing the switches for control, are closer but still not close to the whole system. If you look at the photos of their systems there is clearly a lot more going on than in the schematic you first posted.
Sizing the caps comes down to how much energy do you expect to store, in this case from regen braking, so the sizing is almost more of a mechanical calculation: Max Speed, Max Weight, inertia, total kinetic energy that needs to be regenerated back into the cap. They are using a different topology - series vs Parallel connections, and the controller needs to actively regulate the braking effect and current flow INTO the Ultra-Cap.
Also this motor is actively field controlled - another level of complexity - I would probably avoid on a cart.
 
I see. Can you help me understand the real purpose of using the capacitors? I was planning to simply control the dc motor with a chopper circuit without introduction of capacitors but the problem that arises is quick drain of the battery.

I have another doubt. Will the motor consume more energy at higher speeds or at lower speeds? From the torque speed characteristics what I could understand is that torque will be less for high speeds so in my opinion power required should be less. But I'm still unsure about this conclusion.
 
It the motor is driving a load which itself is harder to turn as it rotates faster, such as a fan or wheels, then higher speed demands higher power.

The purpose of the ultracap is to store regenerative energy during dynamic braking, then use that stored energy to assist the battery during powered drive. If your motor is not doing much braking, then the ultracap circuit won't be of any use.
 
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Thanks for the explanation about the ultracapacitor. It was really helpful. :)
 
  • #11
What can I do to accelerate the motor?
 
  • #12
arkaddas said:
What can I do to accelerate the motor?
Typical DC motors are very robust. You can often overdrive them (i.e., power them above their rated power) for a short time without ill effect, so long as you then run them at reduced drive so they can cool down.

However, there is no magic for getting a continuous 20HP out of a 5HP motor.
 
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