How to find cases of overlap/not in overlap , mathematically

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around determining the mathematical states of four variables (x, y, a, b) and how to find all possible cases of overlap or non-overlap among them. Participants explore the relationships between these variables and the implications of their values in various configurations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that two variables can be in one of three states: xy, referencing the Law of Trichotomy.
  • Another participant counts six relationships among the four variables (x and y, x and a, x and b, y and a, y and b, a and b) and notes that each relationship can be one of three possibilities.
  • Some participants express skepticism about the assumption that all $3^6$ possibilities are realized, citing examples where certain conditions would invalidate others.
  • There is a suggestion to list out the $729$ possibilities to check for consistency, although this is acknowledged as a cumbersome task.
  • One participant questions how to effectively utilize the idea of six pairs of variables with three types each, indicating potential gaps in understanding the approach.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the realization of all $3^6$ possibilities, with some expressing doubt about the validity of certain combinations based on the relationships defined.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in their reasoning, such as the dependence on specific assumptions about the relationships between the variables and the potential for inconsistencies among the proposed states.

rajemessage
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hi,

I have four variables (x and y),(a and b). i want to find out number of state which these variables can attain.

Example :
1) x=2 ,y =5 , a= 0 , b=2 ( that is a and b is less than x and y)
2) x=2 ,y =5 , a= 0 , b=2 ( that is a is less than x and b equal to x)
3) x=2 ,y =5 , a= 0 , b=3 ( that is a is less than x and b greater than x and less than y)
4) x=2 ,y =5 , a= 3 , b=4 ( that is a and be is in side x and y)
etc.
etc.
q1) is there any mathematical way to find all cases/state?

yours sincerley
 
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There is. First of all, two variables can be in one of three states: x<y, x=y, x>y. This is called the Law of Trichotomy. Next, considering that we have four variables, how many relationships are there? Well, I count 6: x and y, x and a, x and b, y and a, y and b, a and b. There are six relationships, and each relationship can be one of three possibilities. So how many total possibilities are there?
 
Ackbach said:
how many relationships are there? Well, I count 6: x and y, x and a, x and b, y and a, y and b, a and b. There are six relationships, and each relationship can be one of three possibilities.
I don't think all $3^6$ possibilities are realized. For example, if $x<y$ and $a<x$, then it can't be that $y<a$.
 
Evgeny.Makarov said:
I don't think all $3^6$ possibilities are realized. For example, if $x<y$ and $a<x$, then it can't be that $y<a$.

Absolutely! I do think this is the place to start, though. You could list out those $729$ possibilities (quite a chore, really), and check each one for consistency. Hmm. Is there an easier way, do you think?
 
Ackbach said:
I do think this is the place to start, though.
Frankly, I don't see how to use the idea that there are six pairs of variables, and each of them can be of at most three types. I may be missing something, though.
 
Ackbach said:
There is. First of all, two variables can be in one of three states: x<y, x=y, x>y. This is called the Law of Trichotomy. Next, considering that we have four variables, how many relationships are there? Well, I count 6: x and y, x and a, x and b, y and a, y and b, a and b. There are six relationships, and each relationship can be one of three possibilities. So how many total possibilities are there?

x<=y and a<=b
 

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