How to find information about energy density of HWR?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the energy density of heavy water reactors (HWR), specifically focusing on the IR-40 reactor being constructed in Iran. Participants are exploring methods to estimate energy density based on available data, including thermal output and core dimensions, while comparing it to other known HWRs.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes the difficulty in determining energy density due to a lack of core dimension data in the IAEA database.
  • Another participant suggests that both thermal power and core dimensions are necessary to calculate average power density.
  • A participant shares a crude estimate of the IR-40's dimensions based on comparisons with the Dhurva and NRU reactors, but expresses uncertainty about the accuracy of this approach.
  • Discussion includes skepticism about the design choices for the IR-40 reactor, particularly regarding the use of RBMK-style fuel rods and their compatibility with HWRs.
  • Participants present energy density estimates for NRU, Candu, and Dhurva reactors, leading to a calculated volume for the IR-40 reactor based on assumed energy density.
  • There is a query about whether additional information on other HWRs could refine the estimates for IR-40's dimensions.
  • Concerns are raised about the implications of using modified RBMK fuel rods in the context of HWR design and manufacturing capabilities.
  • Clarification is sought regarding the definition of "the core" in literature, specifically what it includes in terms of fuel rods, moderator, coolant, and neutron reflector.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various hypotheses and estimates regarding the energy density and dimensions of the IR-40 reactor, but no consensus is reached on the accuracy of these estimates or the implications of using RBMK fuel rods. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing views.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the reliance on estimates and assumptions regarding reactor dimensions and fuel types, as well as the lack of definitive data on the IR-40 reactor's design and operational parameters.

vifteovn
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I need some help finding out the energy density of different heavy water reactors. In IAEA research reactor database they only list the thermal output of some HWR - RR, but they lack information about the dimensions of the core, thereby making it difficult to figure out their energy density.

The reason for wanting to find out this is that I want to compare the energy density of other HWR with the HWR Iran are building at Arak.

Have a nice weekend
 
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In addition to thermal power, one would need the dimensions of the core to determine the average power density, or alternatively one would need the dimensions of a particular assembly and the number of assemblies in the core.
 
I found a crude estimate by comparing IR-40 with Dhurva in India and NRU in Canada. Dhruva and NRU's cores are cylindrical with the diameter the same as the height. By assuming that condition for IR-40 and taking the energy density of Dhruva I found the dimensions of IR-40. But that was only two reactor cores. To find out if this is even close I would like to compare with some other HWR as well.


I think the approach figuring out the assemblies is going to be rather difficult. I could ask the Iranians, but I don't think they'll give me a lot of information :)
 
Yeah, I read about that. But that makes no sense to me. Why are they making RBMK looking fuel intended for IR-40, but have operated a heavy water production plant (HWPP) next door for the last four five years.

Can RBMK fuel even work in a HWR reactor? Are not the fuel rods spaced to tight together for that?

So I still assume IR-40 is a heavy water reactor. I guess its more expensive to make a HWPP than some mock fuel bundles for confusion...
 
With the data from the three reactors I have I end up with this result:

NRU (fueled with LEU): energy density: 11,9 MWth / m3
Candu (fueled with SEU): energy density: 7,64 MWth / m3
Dhurva (fuel with natural uranium): energy density: 7,41 MWth / m3

Taking Iran on its word that IR-40 is 40MW, that gives us: volume = thermal power / energy density. I'm also guessing that they will not use LEU fuel since they don't have so much uranium, and if they want to extract pu-239 they want a low enrichment.

Volume of IR-40: 40MW / 7,5 MWth / m3 = 5,3 m3

I "guess" the dimensions them to be 1,85m in diameter and 1,95m in height. Is this a crazy estimate?

Would additional information about other HWR give me a more precise answer?
 
vifteovn said:
I "guess" the dimensions them to be 1,85m in diameter and 1,95m in height. Is this a crazy estimate?
Would additional information about other HWR give me a more precise answer?

Has to be much longer (at least as long as a fuel assembly).
 
Then you assume they use RBMK fuel rods? I just can't figure out why they want to use modified RBMK fuel rods. Is not fuel rods the least difficult thing to manufacture for a advanced nuclear state?


To be sure, when literature says "the core" they mean the active region of the fuel rods including moderator and / or coolant + neutron reflector?
 

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