How to Find the Density of an Ideal Gas Around a Planet?

Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around finding the density of an ideal gas surrounding a planet, considering gravitational attraction and self-interaction of the gas. The original poster attempts to derive a differential equation for the gas density using hydrostatic equilibrium and the ideal gas law, but encounters nonlinear equations that complicate the solution process.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the appropriateness of the hydrostatic equilibrium equation and the ideal gas law, questioning the original poster's expressions for mass and pressure. There are attempts to clarify the mass contained in a spherical shell and the total mass enclosed, leading to a realization of the need for integrals in the equations. Some participants suggest differentiating integrals to simplify the problem, while others explore alternative approaches using the Maxwell-Boltzmann distribution.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with various participants providing insights and corrections to the original poster's equations. There is a recognition of the complexity of the resulting equations, with some guidance offered on how to approach the differentiation of integrals. Multiple interpretations and methods are being explored, but no consensus has been reached on a definitive solution.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the importance of correctly applying the ideal gas law and hydrostatic equilibrium, as well as the implications of gravitational potential on the gas density. The discussion highlights the challenges posed by nonlinear equations and the need for careful consideration of assumptions in the problem setup.

goulio
Messages
14
Reaction score
0
Hi,

I need to find the density [itex]\rho(r)[/itex] of an ideal gas at constant temperature [itex]T[/itex] surrouding a planet of mass [itex]M[/itex] and radius [itex]R[/itex]. The gas is attrated by the planet and is also self-attracting. First, I used the hydrostatic equilibirum equation
[tex] \frac{dP}{dr}=-\rho(r)\frac{d\phi}{dr}=-\frac{GM(r)\rho(r)}{r^2}[/tex]
and the equation of state of the ideal gas
[tex] P(r)=k T \rho(r)\frac{\rho(r)}{m}[/tex]
where [itex]M(r)=M + \frac{4\pi}{3}r^3\pho(r)[/itex] is the total mass contained in the spherical shell or radius [itex]r[/itex], [itex]m[/itex] is the mass of the gas molecules, and [itex]\phi[/itex] is the gravitationnal potential, to find a differential equation for [itex]\rho(r)[/itex], but this equation turns out to be nonlinear:
[tex] \frac{k T}{m}\frac{d\rho}{dr}=-\frac{GM\rho(r)}{r^2}-\frac{4\pi G}{3}r \rho(r)^2[/tex]
And I don't know how to solve it. Then I tried using the poisson equation
[tex] \nabla^2 \phi = 4\pi G \rho(r)[/tex]
but the equation I ended up with was again nonlinear inlcuding a square of the first derivative.

Any ideas how to solve the preceeding equation or another way to solve the problem?

Thanks
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
A few quick points. First, the ideal gas law for a uniform system is
[tex]P = \frac{N}{V} k T,[/tex]
so it seems like the appropriate generalization would be to say
[tex]P(r) = \frac{\rho(r)}{m} k T,[/tex]
so I don't know where you got the extra factor of [tex]\rho[/tex] from.

Second, your use of the hydrostatic equilibrium condition is appropriate, but you have the mass wrong. How much mass is contained in a spherical shell of radius [tex]r[/tex] and thickness [tex]dr[/tex]? Hint: it isn't just [tex]\rho(r) dr[/tex].

Third, I don't understand your expression for the total mass enclosed. I think you have a typo there. The total enclosed mass will actually be an integral of the mass density.

Fourth, when you put all this together, you will need Poisson's equation to complete your set equations i.e. 3 unknowns (P, [tex]\rho[/tex], [tex]\phi[/tex]) and 3 equations (hydrostatic, ideal gas, Poisson's).

Once you've addressed these points, and if you still can't solve the equation, post again and we can try to move forward from there.

Hope this helps.
 
Last edited:
Ok yeah the equation of the gas is a typo and I got wrong the mass enclosed by spherical shell. You're right it is an integral. Actually it is something like:
[tex] M(r)=\int_0^r du 4\pi u^2 \rho(u)[/tex]
But I put this in the hydrostatic equation I end up with and integro differential equation, something like
[tex]\frac{df}{dx} = -a\frac{f(x)}{x^2}\left (\int_R^r u f(u) du - b \right )[/tex]
I tried to use poisson without any success.

Thanks for your help, you can't imagine how it is appreciated.
 
Ok, your mass enclosed formula looks about right, just remember that the gas density drops to zero at [tex]r = R[/tex], so the mass enclosed should look something like
[tex] M(r) = 4 \pi \int^r_R u^2 \rho(u) \,du + M,[/tex]
I think you just have a typo (only one power of u) when you used the formula in the hydrostatic equation (also b must be -M).

In obtaining your final equation you have already used Poisson's equation to find [tex]\phi[/tex] in terms of [tex]\rho[/tex], this is all I was getting at.

Finally, you do end up with an integro-differential equation. To make it into an ordinary differential equation, try isolating the integral and then differentiating both sides with respect to [tex]r[/tex]. Use the fundamental theorem of calculus to evaluate the derivative of the integral. What you should be left with is a second order nonlinear differential equation. If you can get to this point then we can try to make some more progress.
 
Physics Monkey said:
In obtaining your final equation you have already used Poisson's equation to find [tex]\phi[/tex] in terms of [tex]\rho[/tex], this is all I was getting at.

What do you mean by this? I'm not sure to get it.
 
Here is another way I tried to solve the equation:

Ok here is what I have done for the poisson equation. The gas alone has a Maxwell-Boltzmann Distribution, so the gas under the influence of a conservative potential has the following distribution
[tex] n(r,v)=n_0(v)\exp(-\phi(r)/k t)[/tex]
where [itex]n_0[/itex] is the MB distribution. If I expand this to the first order in [itex]\phi[/itex] I get
[tex] n(r,v)=n_0(v)(1-\phi(r)/k t)[/tex]
Then the density as a function of [itex]r[/itex] is just the planet density plus the gas density
[tex] \rho(r) = \frac{3M}{4 \pi R^3} + m n_0(v)(1-\phi(r)/k T)H(r-R)[/tex]
where [itex]m[/itex] is the mass of the gas particles and [itex]H(r-R)[/iex] is the unit step function. <br /> I substitued this in the poisson equation but I can't solve the resulting equation and Maple won't solve it<br /> either.<br /> <br /> Any other suggestions.[/itex]
 
You used Poisson's equation (perhaps without knowing it) when you calculated the force (per unit mass) as
[tex] - \frac{G M(r)}{r^2}.[/tex]
This result is easy to obtain from Gauss' Law which is just another way to phrase Poisson's equation.

As for your second attack, you must first integrate over the velocity distribution since you want the unconditional distribution (also its obvious that there shouldn't be any velocity dependence anywhere). The equation you have written down is valid, but it represents a self consistent approach since you don't actually know [tex]\phi[/tex] and it depends on what [tex]\rho(r)[/tex]. It is still an integral equation, but if you did things right then you can recover the final equation found in your first attack.
 
Last edited:
Thank you thank you thank you.

Can you tell me how I should differentiate this integral?

Thanks again.
 
Ok forget about that last one, it is getting late here... It's just the function evaluated at [itex]r[/itex].
 
  • #10
The fundamental theorem of calculus says
[tex] \frac{d}{dx} \left( \int^x_a f(t) \, dt\right) = f(x),[/tex]
pretty much exactly as you would expect. Isolate the integral and then differentiate to obtain a pure (and horribly complicated) differential equation. I happen to know that this equation isn't solvable in general (it comes up, for instance, when trying to describe plasmas). I must go now, but perhaps you can find a solution for the special case, just be careful to get all the terms right. If nothing else, you can numerically integrate the equation and obtain a perfectly good solution.
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

Replies
6
Views
3K
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
4K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
Replies
7
Views
2K